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"My first reaction is that by that definition, the American Revolution is misnamed. My second is to wonder what the magic words are that turn my insurrection into a secession that, if I understand you correctly, the government has no moral authority to resist. If I say that I'm only claiming California, or Texas, or the entire south, does that mean by definition that I'm not rebelling?"

I never mentioned "moral authority". I mentioned justification. Justification in the minds of the people about to carry out an action, that it is the right thing to do.

Perhaps it was misnamed.

"But what do we mean by the American Revolution? Do we mean the American war? The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. ...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution." -John Adams

Revolution is something that is happening right now, even as we type back and forth to each other. Its something that is happening at every "tea party" and every town hall meeting. It is something that happens in the minds and hearts of the people. That can either culminate in an attempt to secede peacefully or another American war. Either way, the revolution is already effected. Our argument, it seems, is over the method of finalization.

I never mentioned "moral authority". I mentioned justification. Justification in the minds of the people about to carry out an action, that it is the right thing to do.

Very few actions that take place anywhere in history weren't justified in the minds of the minds of the people who were about to carry them out. Everyone thinks they have good reasons to do what they do. That guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin wrote a whole manifesto laying out his justification. My point lies in what seems to be your belief that saying the magic words, "I secede" means that the government loses all power to resist what you proceed to do.

I guess I don't agree that those are the only two options--the breakup of the United States or another bloody civil war. I see a multitude of options within the existing sociopolitical structure.

One of the best attributes of our Constiutional government is that it allows itself to be altered, if there's sufficient popular support as expressed by voters--specifically, voters demanding their state legislators call for the convention. You dismissed this idea upthread by saying "the people are broken," but then you talk about the revolution that happening right now at Tea Parties and town halls. Gain enough popular support and you can take over the government and rewrite the Constitution. It's yours now. Put in "All of this is now null and void and all states are now on their own to reorganize or remain independent." Call it whatever you like.

The key is popular support. If you have enough people, the government really does lose all power. Enough people can just will a government away. It's what happened all through Eastern Europe. In our case, we have an orderly system in place to change the government, a system that's far easier than what, say, the Czechs did in the Velvet Revolution.

And if you can't do that, if you complain that the game is rigged, that it's too hard, that you can't get enough votes, you can't get enough people at your rallies, that people are too dumb to support your political goals, then maybe you need to think that it's not them, it's you.