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To: Siena Dreaming
You were saying ...

Our country has thrived for 200 years under our Constitution, which is one of the best legislative safeguards of freedom there has ever been.

The government has worked well, for this length of time for what the founders set up, and that's good for you and me and all the others who came before us. It's not been perfect and things are progressively getting worse, but that's more because of the people (in this nation today) rather than the form of government.

The laws that the people put into place, the changes they make to the government and the officials they put into office will be no better than what the people choose and if the people choose differently than they have for the last couple of hundred years, thing will be worse, regardless of the type or form of government you have. The people will simply change it from what it once was, which is what seems to be happening now, in the laws, with the regulations, with the courts, with the elected officials, with the Congress, with the Presidency -- and you name it.

So, while it was good, it was as good as the people who were involved in it..., and we can see which direction it's been going over the last many deades.


These freedoms, of course, include the Christian Church which has done wonders during that time to promote freedoms beyond our borders around the world. This has involved not only spreading religious freedoms, but also following Jesus' command to provide material comforts for those who are needy.

It doesn't help to confuse the United States, with Christianity -- or to think that the U.S. is the highest form of government that one can have for Christianity or that Christianity would normally and naturally produce this form of government.

Christianity is separate from the government, this one or any government, and is not to be considered part and parcel of any government. Christianity should have influence over the people and the people should have influence over the government, but Christianity is not the government.

Christianity is about fundamentally and primarily about the Salvation that comes from the saving faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel. And it's fundamentally and primarily about spreading that Gospel message of this salvation, per the Scriptures, in regard to Jesus, the Messiah of Israel.

It's not about creating a Christian government, because you're never going to have that by human hands. God makes that clear.

In His word, the only government which is going to be perfect is the one which is going to be established by the Messiah of Israel, when He comes back to this earth to defeat the one-world government that is forming now. And He puts in its place His own one-world government. And this government won't have the laws or the freedoms that we take for granted in the United States.

It will be a monarchy, a king-ship reign, over all the nations, and as the Bible says, a rule as with a rod of iron, with justice being strict and quick, according to His word.

That's the perfect government that we'll have in the soon-to-come future, and it will be by His hands and not ours.

And, furthermore the job of Christianity is not to spread freedoms around the world and in other countries -- but rather -- the job of Christianity is to spread the very specific and narrow "Gospel Message of Salvation" by means of accepting Jesus, the Messiah of Israel as the only way and the only Savior that one can have and the only way to eternal life -- all other ways, no matter what they are simply leading to the lake of fire and eternal damnation.

That's the job of Christianity, until Jesus, the Messiah of Israel returns. Anything else that Christianity does, is always secondary and is not the prime goal of what it should do in the world. There are other things that Christianity does, but they are never to take the primary position of importance -- over the Gospel of Salvation and getting that to all the people in the world. That's always the first and prime goal of Christianity.

And in no case is it the goal of Christianity to spred freedom, as Christianity has no ability to do so. It con only offer salvation and eternal life to the individual and not determine or order the way governments operate. Only Jesus, the Messiah of Israel has that task -- and He will do it, Himself, when He returns and goes to war against all his enemies and destroys them upon His return. He's the one who will institute His government -- not Christians or Christianity, in our day or this time.


Without the Church in America we would not have been able to defeat the socialistic nightmares of Nazi Germany and Bolshevik Russia.

What God desires is for those forces of freedom to continue, not diminish.

You might say that without Christians who lived in this country that this country could not have done that. And that's understandable. But, it's the people who are Christians (and even then, not all of them were, but there was a mainstream culture, or a memory of a culture, which held to certain Christian values, whether every person was a Christian or not). But, these "values" are rapidly being forgotten, because people are abandoning Christianity (in this country) and abandoning God (and as a culture, rather than every last single individual).

But, I wouldn't equate this country with Christianity, because this country is far from it and it was far from it, even back then -- even though there were mainstream values that existed in our culture which had their bedrock in Christian values. It was and has been part of the "memory" of the culture we live in, even though the culture is rapidly abandoning it.

As for what God desires, He only desires that all be saved, from the Salvation that He offers, in His Son, in that He died on the cross and was buried and raised from the dead, and all that believe in Him for their personal salvation -- will be saved -- on that basis, alone. That's what God desires.

He also desires, as has been His plan from the beginning, to bring mankind back to the way things were at the Garden of Eden, without evil in the world, without sin and without Satan being here any longer. And that's what He is working towards, right now -- along with bringing a "people" that He has called out from among the nations, to be His own, to live in that "new world" that He will re-establish here on this earth, without sin, without evil, without Satan, without any of the ills that have come about, from the time of the Garden of Eden. That's what God desires and what He is working towards (as that's not what we can do anything about, becuase that's all in God's hands alone).

The only part we have in this is to accept the salvation that He offers, through His Son, and put our trust in Jesus carrying through on the salvation that He promises. You do that, you put your trust in Him and that God will do as He says He will, given the sacrifice of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel -- you will be saved, on that basis alone. That's what God desires.

The U.S. is not in the plan of God, as we see written in the Bible. Israel is, and other nations are, but not the U.S. It's not mentioned by location, by race, by people, by description or by any methodology in the Bible (although people do try and strain at a gnat to put the U.S. in the Bible in some way... LOL...).

God has no other purpose for the U.S. other than to bring about the things that will happen with Israel in the end days, and that's probably all that the U.S. is good for.

God is not trying to spread freedom in this world, as it's an evil place and it's is destined to be totally and utterly destroyed -- the world will not be saved, although individuals in the world will be saved.

It's the coming of the Messiah of Israel, in which He destroys all the mechanisms and philosophies and governments and religions -- that will establish true freedom. This is the freedom that God will bring, when the Messiah of Israel returns to earth to set up this freedom, by His own hand.


Despite you believing that a diminishment of freedom is preferable--this freedom in the US, if God grants a continuance, will continue to extend freedoms to other countries which are not blessed with it. This will include using, as it always has, political and military tools.

I made the point in the above post, if you read them, that I didn't prefer persecution. But, I also pointed out that these freedoms that you mention have not been for the benefit of Christianity, in that they have made many Christians weak and flacid and of no good use.

On the other hand, I've also pointed out that the church has thrived under persecution, but me (as with anyone else) we would not relish the idea of being persecuted -- but at the same time, Jesus tells us that we will be persecuted. Some are persecuted more than others, though -- it seems, in this world. The U.S. Christians can barely refer to being persecuted, although the screws are being put to the U.S. Christians, nonetheless.

And with all the political and military tools that the U.S. has, it will never create a world full of freedom or even get close to that. It will never happen and the Word of God makes that clear. Maybe 100 or so years ago, many thought that this was happening in the world, that we were getting smarter and better all the time and that we would reach the utopia fairly soon -- but you don't find that much any more... :-)

If we look around the world, to Europe to the Middle East, to Russia, to China and to South America -- it doesn't look like "freedom" is doing too well and it's not likely to do well in the coming years. We're headed towards that evil one-world government that the Bible tells us about and that God says He will judge and destroy utterly, as the Messiah of Israel comes back to earth to go to war against those people and those nations who fight on behalf of this one-world government.

He sets up His own one-world government and does away with every other government in the world, including the U.S.'s government and establishes one with Him as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, over all the nations of the world (and we're talking about the nations that you're looking at today... those very same nations and many of the same people you see alive and breathing today).

No amount of military and/or political tools that the U.S. has, will ever bring that kind of freedom to the world.


I sure hope the number of people like you who believe freedom to be less than desirable does not continue to grow. I appreciate the Christians in politics like Sarah Palin who believe fervently that God's way is to fight against the forces which would diminish freedom and to promote what has always been the clarion call of the USA.

The clarion call for freedom to the world -- is solely and only through Jesus, the Messiah of Israel setting up His one-world government and ruling over all the nations of the world, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That's the only true clarion call that the Christian has.

Other than that, as obedient citizens (in any country) Christians should live peaceably and within the laws of the country, participate where they can and be at peace with whomever will allow them to be at peace with others.

Outside of that, the Christians primary responsibility per the Bible is to spread the Gospel of the Salvation that is offered through the free gift from Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, for all who will put their trust in Him, to do as He says He will and for their eternal life, with Him.

32 posted on 02/08/2010 5:54:07 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
You use WAY too many words.

Not many will want to wade through it all.

34 posted on 02/08/2010 5:58:46 PM PST by what's up
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