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To: Aggie Mama; alfa6; Albertafriend; antisocial; Arizona Carolyn; awin; A Strict Constructionist; ...
FReeper Book Club

The Debate over the Constitution

The First Nationalist Speaks

James Wilson’s Speech at the State House

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FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution

5 Oct 1787, Centinel #1

2 posted on 02/04/2010 8:28:05 AM PST by Publius
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To: Publius
Although it is perhaps not relevant to the discussion of this particular speech I find the following to be quite profound given what has been argued by some of our countrymen since!

15 Let it be remembered then, that the business of the federal Convention was not local, but general – not limited to the views and establishments of a single state, but coextensive with the continent and comprehending the views and establishments of thirteen independent sovereignties. (emphasis added)

3 posted on 02/04/2010 8:49:15 AM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: Publius
22 The Convention found the task too difficult for them, and they left the business as it stands, in the fullest confidence that no danger could possibly ensue, since the proceedings of the Supreme Court are to be regulated by the Congress, which is a faithful representation of the people, and the oppression of government is effectually barred by declaring that in all criminal cases the trial by jury shall be preserved. (emphasis added)

Something else prominent in Mr. Wilson's understanding of the document he himself helped create that has been largely forgotten today!

4 posted on 02/04/2010 8:56:00 AM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: Publius
38 In common parlance, indeed, it is generally applied to petty associations for the ease and convenience of a few individuals, but in its enlarged sense it will comprehend the government of Pennsylvania, the existing Union of the states, and even this projected system is nothing more than a formal act of incorporation. (emphasis added)

Yet another profound observation that is argued with by a good many even to this day!

5 posted on 02/04/2010 9:03:30 AM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: Publius
I am doing some traveling right now in the State of Jefferson, looking for a job. Hopefully my efforts will be fruitful and soon enough I can catch up on these threads.

Meantime, keep me on the ping!

6 posted on 02/04/2010 9:05:39 AM PST by Clinging Bitterly (We need to limit political office holders to two terms. One in office, and one in prison.)
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To: Publius
43 The Senate is to be composed of two senators from each state, chosen by the legislature, and therefore if there is no legislature, there can be no Senate. (emphasis added)

Adoption of the 17th amendment destroyed this key element of the founders design!

7 posted on 02/04/2010 9:12:50 AM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: Publius
1) Let's rewrite the commerce clause:

Amendment XVIII
No government entity may regulate commerce between the states. Offenses which occur across the borders of states may be prosecuted in the state where the victim resides, and the offender may be extradited accordingly."

Even without the commerce clause, Wilson and Hamilton were wrong. Article VI, the Supremacy Clause, of the Constitution, contains this gem. This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. This bit of the Constitution is still ignored today.

Let's be honest. Spoiled children tend to abuse their toys to the annoyance of grown ups. The Congress has abused the commerce clause since the days of the Great Scumbag Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Legislatures of the several states, as well as the federal courts, ignored this founding principle in its entirety.

'Twas politics, they said.

'Twas wrong, I replied.

2) Then there is the issue of the godlike power of the SCOTUS. This was never intended. The Supreme Court fits the classical definition of an oligarachy. That also needs to go.

Amendment XXIX
Decisions of the Supreme Court of the United States may be overruled by a bill passed by two thirds majority in the house and senate. The president may veto the bill. The bill must be presented to the floor of the house no more than thirty days after the first day that the house meets after the day the decision is published.

The last bit prevents the legislative and executive branches from going through history to find decisions they don't like. If they overturn a ruling, the Supreme Court Reporter can cite the case as it appeared in the Court record, with an addition that the rule was vacated. Thus, those who wish to follow the law can see exactly what is allowed or forbidden.

9 posted on 02/04/2010 9:37:31 AM PST by sig226 (Bring back Jimmy Carter!)
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To: Publius

I didn’t realize that we had to sign up again after I received the first post about the new subject for the FReeper Book Club. Please add me to the list. Glad you are tackling this. They certainly aren’t teaching it at schools anymore — elementary, high, college, or even law schools!


33 posted on 02/07/2010 8:52:05 AM PST by Mad-Margaret
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