[MortMan]

Your argument is absurd. John O stated that a large part of his taxes are taken with nothing in return. You immediately conclude that defense (one of the few legitimate federal functions) is what he is talking about. Straw man, anyone?

Further, you have also asserted that government taking social security is "...a transfer, and merely moves money from pocket A to pocket B." That is incorrect. Government takes social security money, puts it not in pocket B, but in general fund C, slipping an IOU in pocket B.

The IOU in pocket B is "created debt" (probably an inadequate term) because it is an IOU from the government - which is fundable through increased extraction from pocket A (the taxpayer). In the end, pocket A pays at least twice for the money that migrates into pocket B because of the surrepticious stop in general fund C.

[JasonC]

People receive hundreds of billions of dollars each year in checks from the federal government under social security. People pay hundreds of billions of dollars each year in wage deduction taxes to the federal government under social security. It is a transfer.

The resistence to all of this shown in this thread is utterly absurd. I defend the proposition that the wealthiest society in human history is not bankrupt, and men pretending to be sober conservatives aware of economic principles endlessly attack me over it, because they can't bear to admit it.

This is a sign of a deeply diseased and lying ideology.