FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution, Centinel #1

A Publius/Billthedrill Essay | 1 February 2010 | Publius & Billthedrill

[Publius]

FReeper Book Club
The Debate over the Constitution
The States’ Men Speak First: The Battle is Joined
Centinel #1

Ping! The thread has been posted.

Earlier threads:

FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution

[w4women]

List please?

[zeugma]

BFL

[BuckeyeTexan]

Yee-haw! It’s finally here. Let’s get started.

Tex

[super7man]

Ping for later.

[Loud Mime]

PING!

[loveliberty2]

Interesting that this excellent post appears on the same day in which, on another thread, my post appears of parts of John Quincy Adams' "Jubilee" Address--those parts addressing the Constitution's incorporation of the ideas of both "democracy" and "republic"--are treated by him.

Perhaps his tracing of American history through the first 50 years under the Constitution--done by invitation of the New York Historical Society--may be a subject for the future here.

Thanks for this!

[JDoutrider]

Bookmark

[Loud Mime]

I had to look up “abstruse.”

Love your warning at the end. Chapter Ten explains my belief of where we went wrong.

[whodathunkit]

This is going to be a wonderful opportunity to learn the reasoning behind our Constitution.

Let me begin by supplying a link to the Pennsylvania Constitution that is being referred to in Verse 3.

Thanks for beginning this project.

[Publius]

Excellent! Thank you. It will be a valuable reference tool.

[loveliberty2]

One other thought: you refer to Bryan's observations about the necessity of "virtue" in a Republic. JQA's "Jubilee" contains a fairly lengthy discussion of that idea also, which those who are reading Bryan might want to peruse.

In your commentary on that, you include this comment: "Harry Truman, in his homey Missouri way, once made the point that a man who would cheat on his wife would cheat on his country."

Samuel Adams commented on both the idea of "virtue among the people" and the relationship between private and public "virtue" in this manner:

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." - Essay in the Public Advertiser, 1749

"He who is void of virtuous Attachments in private Life, is, or very soon will be void of all Regard for his Country. There is seldom an Instance of a Man guilty of betraying his Country, who had not before lost the Feeling of moral Obligations in his private Connections." - Letter to James Warren, November 4, 1775

[r-q-tek86]

Thanks for the ping. I’m getting Pub’s ping as well, so you can drop me from your list.

[Ciexyz]

It's necessary to remember that the western half of Pennsylvania at that time was a barter economy. Land in the Pittsburg countryside (as the city was spelled then) was being sold and settled by 1772, and yeoman farmers were developing large tracts of land. Whiskey was the standard form of barter. These hard-working pioneers feared the power of a centralized government, and those fears came to pass when Alexander Hamilton's government established a tax on whiskey and rebellion broke out in the early 1790's.

The national legislature voted to impose this tax on western PA. The western PA legislators of course opposed it, but their comrades in legislation said, the hell with you. This is one early case of groupthink punishing hardworking entrepreneurs to support the entire national body.

The result: taxation forced many whiskey makers to flee to less developed territories like Kentucky, and bless those new lands with their expertise in making whiskey. Which is why people speak of 'Kentucky whiskey' with respect, and not "Pennsylvania whiskey'.

[PGalt]

Fascinating. The verses I noted (for myself for my further review as I was reading them) are different from the ones you have cited...yet the questions you have raised from the verses you cited are very legitimate.

My 1st thought (not being knowledgeable about Bryan) is that I like this thinker.

Kudos for your tremendous effort, Publius. (/to work)

BUMP-TO-THE-TOP!

[Jacquerie]

I finally finished reading your recommended “Rise of The Republic.” Thanks!

It clearly described the evolution of self government among the colonies.

After over 150 years of tradition and experience, adoption of our federal Constitution was no accident; it was a logical conclusion.

[Publius]

Excellent point. When we get to Federal Farmer #1 next Monday, we have a long essay on the money situation and the Alcohol Standard observed on the frontier.

[r-q-tek86]

Is there room for elites in American governance, and why or why not? Is there truly a certain native wisdom resident in the People, and why or why not?

My problem with (self-appointed) elites in government is that they often seem to have a theoretical understanding of the needs of the "little people". I heard the point made, I believe by John Stossel, that it is impossible for anyone to know what the needs of all the citizens are because there are simply too many perspectives. This was an argument for maintaining a limited government as a means to protect the "native wisdom" of the population. While it may start a larger argument, this notion goes to the concept of "legislating morality" that our side often falls into.

I believe this also goes to the point of the government closest to the people being the most representative and the government furthest away being the least. "the country", "the State" and "Washington" being the author's definitions.

On a side note... and you may have covered this already... are the italicized portions of the text YOUR italics or the author's?

[loveliberty2]

I keep it nearby for reference on so many points of our history. Amazing how well-read and informed these 18th and 19th Century Americans were, isn't it?

Frothingham's delving into the ideas which inspired and motivated the Founders makes "The Rise of the Republic . . . " a unique work for today and, when read alongside JQA's "Jubilee" Address, Justice Story's "Commentaries . . . ," "THE FEDERALIST," Madison's "Notes," Burke's "Speech on Conciliation," and Tocqueville's 1830's observations, these can provide a more comprehensive background for appreciation of the truly unique "miracle" which happened in America.

Too bad the 20th Century "censors" revised and rewrote the nation's marvelous history and, until technology overtook them in the 21st Century, the real history of America almost was obscured. Not any more!

Today, one doesn't have to travel to libraries in distant places, handwrite notes in dusty stacks, and type them into papers. Instead, the Founders' complete writings, as well as these other early histories, can be read with the click of a mouse.

Divine Providence must still be about His work of preserving America as a place of liberty!