Posted on 01/29/2010 9:49:10 AM PST by FutureRocketMan
WICHITA, Kan. — A man who said he killed prominent Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller in order to save the lives of unborn children was convicted Friday of murder.
The jury deliberated for just 37 minutes before finding Scott Roeder, 51, of Kansas City, Mo., guilty of premeditated, first-degree murder in the May 31 shooting death.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
“Vigilantism is illegal, but arguably moral.”
Perhaps every man can morally enforce his own concept of what is right and wrong, regardless of the law. But it is a slippery slope. If you decide that you have the right to take the life of another, even though they are behaving legally, then you are putting yourself in the position of a god, or at least claiming the knowledge of a god. Such thinking is what has led to the scourge of the fanatical Muslim suicide bombers.
Our founding fathers with the other type of Christian that were willing to take up arms over a tea tax and just plain freedom. They were called murderers too.
If they will here today the would be willing to give up freedom, life, possessions to stop this country from killing babies.
Nothing is wrong your type of Christian, but don't knock people that see God's law above man.
Stop the killers of Innocent babies is never wrong. By any means.
50,000,000 dead babies. Enough is enough.
******If you lived in China would you kill your baby girl? If you answer any question I pray this be the one instead of more talking points.******
In the Bible Moses Mother broke the law by hiding her babies.
Joseph and Mary broke the law by protecting their babies.
God had many men in the Bible kill to give out justice.
I hope to see Scott in heaven Before I see any mother who has her baby killed Or doctor who kills babies or people who work for a place that kills babies.
I know you would have condemned our founding Fathers for killing the British soldiers who fought for the King of England. Who at that time were the rulers of the colonies.
I can forgive anyone for there sins. To kill a killer is justice. We need More Scotts who gave everything.
We also need good people like you.
But people like me our needed too.
And more people like Scott, who gave up his freedom to stop a killer doctor.
I'm not willing to do that but I will pray that God stops the killing as soon as possible. A lot of people were killed to stop slavery too.
It's called justice!'
America wake up. 50 million and up!
God Bless you. Ohio!
Do you think this makes sense. I sent it to OHIO.
During the Revolutionary War, you would have been the type of Christian that would have sat on your hands and prayed that England would win because you did not want to commit treason.
Our founding fathers were the other type of Christian that were willing to take up arms over a tea tax and just plain freedom. They were called murderers too.
If they will here today they would be willing to give up freedom, life, possessions to stop this country from killing babies.
Nothing is wrong your type of Christian, but don't knock people that see God's law above man.
Stop the killers of Innocent babies is never wrong. By any means.
50,000,000 dead babies. Enough is enough.
******If you lived in China would you kill your baby girl? If you answer any question I pray this be the one instead of more talking points.******
In the Bible Moses Mother broke the law by hiding her baby.
Joseph and Mary broke the law by protecting their babies.
God had many men in the Bible kill to give out justice.
I hope to see Scott in heaven Before I see any mother who has her baby killed Or doctor who kills babies or people who work for a place that kills babies.
I know you would have condemned our founding Fathers for killing the British soldiers who fought for the King of England. Who at that time were the rulers of the colonies.
I can forgive anyone for there sins. To kill a killer is justice. We need More Scotts who gave everything.
We also need good people like you.
But people like me our needed too.
And more people like Scott, who gave up his freedom to stop a killer doctor.
I'm not willing to do that but I will pray that God stops the killing as soon as possible. A lot of people were killed to stop slavery too.
It's called justice!’
America wake up. 50 million and up!
God Bless you. Ohio!
Yo, dummy, the question about the duel was a sarcastic response to your begs the question statement that I was replying to, “.....is going to conclude that shooting a man in cold blood was the righteous thing to do.” Work real hard on it and you’ll catch on. The sentence after the question about the duel, “When did Tiller ever engage in a fair fight with a fetus?” should have been a big clue that it was sarcasm. It would have been easy for someone with normal intelligence to “get it.”
Oh, and FYI, I’m actually not a newbie, which is really neither here nor there in the first place. I was a member for about 3 years in the late 90s through the 2000 election. The whole “newbie” thing is so childish and such a lame means of avoiding direct response to content. It’s a lame argument based in fallacy: “You’re new so you don’t know anything” or “You’re new so you don’t count.” How lame can you be?
You have to defend your claim that you’re pro-life to yourself and to God. Quit trying to convince me. I see you for what you are, and I have no doubt God does, too. You’re no pro-lifer as long as you think Roeder should get the DP for saving thousands of innocents. You’re as much of a statist as zero or any of his crew are because you put man’s law ahead of God’s law. It was the State that failed to stop Tiller in the first place, then you turn around and pay homage to that same entity, the State, by personally approving the notion of them giving Roeder the DP. I guess when zero tells you to bend over, you reply, “Yessuh, Massuh!”
“No. If not, what moral basis would you provide for saving lives? At the very least, the murder has to be imminent, with a specific victim or victims in mind.”
So, you would not regard a daily practice of killing babies on a daily basis for years...and numbering in the tens of thousands as sufficient? There were specific victims...they were the babies. Roeder himself declared openly in court (and that is why it took so little time to find him guilty of murder) that his motive was to stop the killing of innocent babies. The judge denied him the right to bring in the prosecuting attorneys who prosecuted Tiller for illegal abortions as witnesses. He also ruled that manslaughter was not an option for the jury...something I think can be argued in an appeal. Manslaughter would be based upon Roeder’s obvious motives which he freely stated in court as being to prevent further killing of babies. Even though that is not legal it is a reasonable “reason” for his illegal act. The problem is the pro abortion side cannot allow any leniency of any rights to pro life activists. That is why their freedom of speech and protest are limited in ways others are not. Those who are obsessed with death have no mercy for anyone.
‘Adolph Hitler was always at arm’s length of the Nazi Concentration Camp Killing Machine. With that being the case, do you also believe that there would have been no justification in killing Adolph Hitler in 1942?”
Adolph Hitler was not at arms length, not a good one to use, he was instrumental in the entire war and many many atrocities after all. Perhaps a better one would be to ask, should the German Parliament been held responsible? To my knowledge they were not prosecuted at the Nuremberg Trials after the war. Interesting little fact I was not aware of until this was the initial laws and following decrees depriving Jews of “their rights as human beings” were called the Nuremberg Race Laws of 1935.
“God has clearly told us that we are not to commit premeditated murder. Jesus took that commandment and made it even stricter by telling us that we are not even to hate anyone.”
Here is an example of bad logic. First of all, Roeder morally, in a biblical sense, did not commit murder. He killed a mass murderer of innocent babies. He stopped this monster from continuing to kill babies. Indeed, the action resulted in the entire clinic shutting down it’s killing of babies. I don’t think Jesus would think this a sin.
Roeder’s act was an act of love, love for the babies. He sacrificed his life for the babies that are saved by his actions. He was cognizant of this sacrifice and still made it. That is an unselfish act for the life of others whom Roeder did not even know. That is a great act of love.
The fact that he is guilty of a crime does not take away from his heroism. There are babies alive today who would have been killed had he not acted. Would anyone prefer those babies dead to spare Tiller?
“It should break our hearts for ALL the deaths of these innocent ones Tiller killed.
Perhaps you consider my reply an ‘idiot one’....
...but somehow, one day ....a long time ago....our nation lost it’s corporate soul.”
Pope John Paul wrote about how evil has learned it’s mistakes from the Nazi and Communist periods in the last century. The anti life strategies were too obvious, to obtruse. Now it has become smarter and has in liberalism, primarily with the abortion issue, managed to turn the heads of people who would normally be abhorred by the mass murder going on, into accepting it. Evil has learned to deceive us more ably than before.
‘Perhaps every man can morally enforce his own concept of what is right and wrong, regardless of the law. But it is a slippery slope. If you decide that you have the right to take the life of another, even though they are behaving legally, then you are putting yourself in the position of a god, or at least claiming the knowledge of a god. Such thinking is what has led to the scourge of the fanatical Muslim suicide bombers.”
The gift of life and hence the right to life is granted us by God, we do not have to search for that, it is one of those self evident rights upon which our nation was based in it’s inception.
How many supreme court justices made it “legal” to deny the right to life of babies? Do you really believe that transcends God’s law?
What Roeder did he did out of love for humanity. This is much different than the vicious random killings by the Muslim suicide bombers committed with hatred.
Wpin, following ohio’s reasoning, he would have offered his own infant son up to King Herod’s butchers who were acting on Herod’s law to kill all male infants. The law is the law is the law blah blah blah. The law is an ass, is what it actually is.
The fact that some terrible wrongs have been codified into law by no means requires them to be followed. There would be no United States if this wasn’t the case, Europe would never have been freed of Hitler’s stranglehold, and many more millions would have been killed if the United States had acknowledged and respected Hitler’s “laws”.
That was an impressive post - insightful and expressed with clarity.
I am basing my view on what Jesus actually said, and how he lived His life when he was here on earth. How many babies did Herod kill? Did Jesus murder him? No. Did Jesus ever, in all His ministry, tell his disciples to murder anyone? No. Did Jesus tell us that not only should we not murder, but that we should not hate? Yes.
We are not going to agree on this. I believe that Roeder unlawfully and immorally took God's law into his own hands. According to what I read in God's word, murder is a sin.
At any rate, I have said what I wanted to say (multiple times) and there are two very nasty people who are saying horrific things about how I support infanticide and don't have a problem with Hitler or Mengele, and are making complete fools of themselves, so it's time for me to leave (for their sakes, I think. They're embarrassing themselves BIG time. :)
If you want I can freepmail you a hundred names of freepers who can verify how intensely pro-life I am and always have been. Otherwise, you can agree with these two that because I don't believe murder is pro-life, that I am evil and will be going to hell. Somehow I think you're more rational than either of them are. :) I understand your sentiment. I just don't think it's backed by Scripture, and that is my final authority.
See you on another thread.
But thanks for your thoughts. I see where you're coming from, and the issue is complex and difficult, but I still strongly disagree with what Roeder did.
If, when I get to heaven, I find out I was wrong, so be it. But as I understand Scripture in my study of God's Word, I see no approval for murder. (I understand that you don't think it is murder, but shooting a man in cold blood, IMO, can be seen no other way. Even the revolutionaries didn't shoot unarmed men at church - the British did, but not the good guys).
I look forward to seeing you on other pro-life threads, since we both share the important goal of saving babies' lives.
(But as I told Wpin, since there are two people here who are making wild and evil (and stupid) accusations about me here because I don't share their views, it would be unwise for me to hang around with such dishonest and nasty people).
******If you lived in China would you kill your baby girl? If you answer any question I pray this be the one instead of more talking points.******
******If you lived in China would you kill your baby girl? If you answer any question I pray this be the one instead of more talking points.******
PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!
What would possess you to ask such a ridiculous thing?
The more accurate question to ask, given what I have said repeatedly, would be, would you support pro-lifers going in to Chinese abortion clinics and shooting the doctors. No.
Now, let me give you a brief personal story. I became pregnant in my late thirties, and because of that I was given an amniocentisis, and with it Planned Parenthood literature advising us to abort our baby if she were defective. We accepted the amnio, but told the technicians and everyone around that we would not under even the most dire of circumstances, kill our own baby. We would have done exactly what Sarah and Todd Palin did. We are immutably pro-life.
My husband has been in the health-care/ hospital field for over 30 years, and he WILL QUIT HIS JOB should FOCA pass and his hospital be forced to perform abortions. He has spoken to many community groups against the Obama health care bill, first and foremost because of abortion.
We are both long term, hard-core, principled pro-lifers. It is the most important issue to both of us. We are financial supporters of pro-life causes, protestors, activists.
Hideous question. Hideous.
******If you lived in China would you kill your baby girl? If you answer any question I pray this be the one instead of more talking points.******
“The fact that some terrible wrongs have been codified into law by no means requires them to be followed. There would be no United States if this wasn’t the case, Europe would never have been freed of Hitler’s stranglehold, and many more millions would have been killed if the United States had acknowledged and respected Hitler’s “laws”.”
We are actually required to follow laws, even the “illegal” ones like abortion. But, good people rejecting bad laws is what brings civilization a step forward in each century. Your metaphor about Hitler’s laws is accurate. If it were not for those who fought against them they would still be here today. Satan learned from his mistakes back then and became more cunning with the abortion issue. He has deceived other wise good people into a basic anti-life position. And, he has succeeded in creating monsters like Tiller to carry out the killing of innocent lives.
I told you about my own baby girl and how we wouldn't have killed her even if she were grossly deformed. If you couldn't tell that my answer was NO to your vile question when I gave you my real life situation, then I can't help you.
But now that I understand that you don't care what the truth is, and even when I state it clearly, you ignore it, there's no reason to continue the discussion with you either.
I'll keep your name in mind as "to be avoided at all costs."
Just a suggestion.
Now remember you can't take the law in your hands!
It’s a real life question, what that about hideous.
******If you lived in China would you kill your baby girl? If you answer any question I pray this be the one instead of more talking points.******
Thanks again for the talking points.
Christians in China Might want to hear want the Scriptures say?
Again, God Bless.
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