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To: Enchante
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America

That's at the TOP OF THE DOCUMENT.

85 posted on 01/28/2010 6:17:17 PM PST by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
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To: history_48

I guess US history and government isn’t taught in Indonesia


87 posted on 01/28/2010 6:27:59 PM PST by OregonPatriot2010
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To: muawiyah

re: “United States of America”

the phrase in 1776 had a dramatically different meaning to nearly everyone then what it came to mean a decade or two later

I think you are being completely “anachronistic” in the sense of importing a later meaning of “nation” back to 1776 which had a “moral” but not yet a legal or constitutional basis — and Franklin and Jefferson had many views which were not widely shared in 1776, although more so later

in 1776 the whole emphasis (for nearly all) was still upon “STATES” — 13 of them — and “America” was still much more of a geographical refence than any “constitutional” government — there was no national govt. yet -— the Continental Congress had no authority over anything or anyone except its own meetings

virtually everyone signing their names to that document still had a strong sense of their state as sovereign vis-a-vis both England and the “United States of America”

before 1787 it was extremely controversial (and still was for quite awhile afterwards with the “anti-federalists”) to regard the separate states as in any way answerable to or subordinate to a national government

why did General Washington have such terrible times trying to get enough troops, funds, supplies, etc.? in considerable part because there was no “nation” to speak of, simply 13 emerging states each jealously guarding their own sovereignty

yes, Jefferson and Franklin were among the earliest to think about and display a definite sense of nationhood, but they were way ahead of their peers

who can say that in 1776 the predominant view in the newly independent “states” was that there was in existence a sovereign national government with its own “constitution” and its legal authority over anything?

The nearly universal view (except among the “Tories” who were beginning to flee) was that each state was the primary locus of sovereignty and decision-making

the “national” congress could only pass resolutions as suggestions — there were no national laws, no federal govt, all legal authority resided with each state and locale

here’s a question: in 1776, could the (2nd) “Continental Congress” actually “do” anything except recommend, resolve, persuade? They could not pass a law binding on any state or citizen, they could not raise armies or (UGH) tax anyone etc. the states were still the locus of legal and sovereign powers (except according to the Brits, of course)

the “Articles of Confedertion” did not even exist in 1776... sure we can say that an idea of nation was rapidly emerging, and that Franklin and Jefferson were at the forefront, but even in 1786-87 the numbers of people who thought there would/should be any national govt. with the slightest authority over the states on anything at all was still very limited


92 posted on 01/28/2010 6:43:26 PM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: Pour sunlight into all of YOUR illegal campaign donations! Release all records!)
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