Tesla Motors lands $465M loan with feds to build Palo Alto plant

Mercury News ^ | 1/25/10 | Jason Green

[al_c]

I never said there was anything wrong with gas powered vehicles, did I? But what’s wrong with trying something different? Why not expand the use of propane or natural gas? Those have proven to be working pretty well.

But back on the Tesla. Here’s a FAQ from their site (my comments in parenthases)...

1) What is the price of the Model S?
a. Model S will start at $49,900 after a $7,500 federal tax credit.

(So, obviously, you’d need to take advantage of the tax credit to get the 49k price. And that is a starting price. Read on ...)

2) What is the range on one charge?
a. The range per charge will depend on which battery you have installed. The base model will have an estimated range of 160 miles per charge. There will also be batteries available that can travel approximately 230 miles and 300 miles per charge.

(2 different battery levels. Looks like there will be a higher end model and of course a higher price for that one)

3) How quickly does it charge?
a. Model S can charge to 80% of capacity in as little as 45 minutes. Standard charging times will vary depending on battery capacity, ranging from approximately 3 to 5 hours.

4) How many people and how much cargo can it hold?
a. Model S can seat up to 7 people, with room for 5 adults, plus 2 child seats in the rear. There is more storage capacity than most stations wagons, and the large rear opening allows for the flexibility to carry large objects that cannot fit in the trunk opening of a traditional sedan.

5) How fast is it?
a. 0-60 mph is achieved in 5.6 seconds, but more importantly the electric powertrain provides instant torque at any speed resulting in immediate acceleration whenever it is needed. As a real world performer the Model S will have no equals.

6) What options are going to be available?
a. Final options are still being determined but following are some of the planned highlights:
i. Panoramic roof with sliding moon roof.
ii. Automatic open and close liftgate.
iii. 300-mile and 230-mile batteries
iv. Remote vehicle management, including; charging, personalization and customization, and data collection.

7) How long will the battery last?
a. Battery life is dependent on many factors, including; mileage, age, temperature extremes, and charge cycles. In general you should expect a Model S battery to have a useful life between 5 and 7 years, but proper care can result in a 10-year life.

(I wonder how much of a hit your pocketbook would take at the price of new batteries. Another hurdle for electric cars)

8) Will you offer financing and/or lease options?
a. Yes. It is our intention to offer conventional financing options on Model S.

[al_c]

And then there's this ...

Tesla Motors Model S Faces Challenges

Summary
Tesla surprised the world with its innovative Roadster. It is a very different senerio, however, to build a car from scratch. The roadster started with a fully sorted Lotus platform. The S is a "clean sheet" of paper vehicle.

Analysis
Tesla's announcement at the NA Auto Show that it would build a four place, 300 mile range vehicle for 50k in two years is a significant statement. In summary, they need to find/equip a factory, finalize design, choose suppliers, have parts built to their spec and go into production.

This appears to be very ambitious. They have come a long way and learned a lot from the roadster, but these are very big steps. If one goes back in history, several great car guys tried to start car companies; Delorean, Bricklin and all.

Agreed that they have a great team and major dollars, but they are pioneering into new territory, not building a kit car. Also, what about crash testing and other mandated government safety standards?

I wish them well and look forward to driving the Model S.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, an electric car is gonna face some trials. But, IMO, let's do just that .... get some out there and test them in the real world with the latest technology available. What's it gonna hurt?

[Reaganez]

Not exactly. A 19% increase would be an additional $7600, not $19000. All of this conversation said, would you rather companies not even try to produce an alternative to the gas powered car? This is at least heading in the right direction and will lead to better solutions. At least somebody is trying to make one that has hope of succeeding and not some ugly egg shell on wheels.

The Model S is NOT expected to come in at the same price as the Volt,$40K. It is expectected to come in just shy of $50K.

19% of $49k is $9,310. 19% of $49,999 is 9,499.81. $49 + $9,310 = 58,310 $49,999 + $9,499 = 58,310

Expect MSRP of $59,000 There wil be a $7,500 tax credit for both EREV and BEV for about three years.

I would rather a company like Tesla that takes massive Federal dollars work on a practical car that the average American will be able to afford and drive as their primary car within a reasonable time frame. Not building toys for households that make over $200k.

That is what Tesla is doing.

[Reaganez]

What's wrong with gas powered vehicles?

They fund Muslim Terrorist and Despots. And other Despots like Hugo Chavez and Vladimir Putin.

Your electrical dream will work well (in your opinion) under ideal climate conditions, but take it into the Northern States, Canada or Alaska and it will be quite worthless.

EREVs will work quite well in Northern Climates.Funding both sides of the War on Muslim Terrorist forever is just plain stupid.

Then there is also the “Out of thin air” issue over where the power these vehicles use will come from. It will require massive increases of power to charge them and the ratio of power needed to feed them, in relation to the amount of energy that will be yielded, does not even come close to what gas/oil powered vehicles produce.

There is only an illusion that these are “green” and “non impact”. In fact, on the contrary. They will increase massive power plant output and emissions in the process, which of course is not even considered by the ignorant environMENTAL crowd. Then, one also must consider what destructive increases in electricity prices this will cause all of us.

I nor anyone here IMO is part of the envirmoMENTAL crowd. If we were we would not be at Free Republic.

I am an anti-Oil Hawk. I am for Energy Independence. I am against funding both sides of the War on Muslim Terrorist.

There is plenty of excess capacity in our electricity grid to charge upto 50M electric cars overnight. The US will not get to 50M electric vehicles overnight.

As we get there we will need new electric power plants. But that is far into the future. And we can't drill our way to Energy Independence. 305M Americans and growing simply use more gas and oil products than our domestic resources can provide. Even if we drilled all of Alaska and all offshore resources off the coast of the entire USA.

[al_c]

Go back and read again .... I never said it was the same price as the Volt. But I did say it’s not a whole lot more. IF (and that’s a big if) I was in the market for one of these, I’d consider the extra 9K for a larger and better performing car (if it does indeed do what Tesla says it can do).

I’d rather see something more practical too. But we’ve seen the choices on those (Prius and it’s ilk). I still think this is a step in a good direction as far as electric powered cars go.

[Political Junkie Too]

Have the environmentalists given their permsission to rape the earth that this plant is going to sit upon?

-PJ

[the_devils_advocate_666]

http://www.hybridcarblog.com/2009/01/prius-sales-down-45-percent-in-december.html

Monday, January 05, 2009

Prius sales down 45 percent in December

Hybrid vehicle sales, led by the Toyota Prius, crash again in December.The good ole days, at least for hybrid sellers

Change. Talk about what a difference a few months makes.

Just six months, you couldn't find a Toyota Prius on a dealer lot. In December, however, Prius sales fell 45 percent according to the AP. But it isn't just hybrid cars that are getting hit hard, but fuel efficiency in general, as Toyota and Honda posted bigger sales declines than their US competitors.

[Reaganez]

Go back and read again.

You said 19% was $7600. 19% of 40K is $7600 The Model S is not a better performing car.

We shall see when both cars are on dealer lots. GM CEO Whitacre is hinting at an MSRP below $40k.

Model S is less a step in the right direction that a very expensive test project.

[Jack of all Trades]

..In summary, they need to find/equip a factory, finalize design, choose suppliers, have parts built to their spec and go into production...

Just a slight understatement of the tasks at hand.

Also, what about crash testing and other mandated government safety standards?

Not to mention hot/cold testing, handling/braking/drivability/stability, durability, EMC and a lot more. Then of course comes the production process validation. And to pull it off for 2011, they need to be production tooled by mid to late 2010.

Yeah, an electric car is gonna face some trials. But, IMO, let's do just that .... get some out there and test them in the real world with the latest technology available. What's it gonna hurt?

Ahhh, the great American test fleet. What could possibly go wrong?

[Reaganez]

Monday, January 05, 2009 Prius sales down 45 percent in December

Prius is old news. Old technology.

These buyers are probably waiting for the Chevy Volt.

Or at least the Prius plug-in.

[al_c]

Math error on my part. Shoulda been 19% of 49k. That was in response to the theory that the Model S will increase in price the same amount as the Roadster. The Roadster increased by 19% of the estimated price, therefore I would think that the same could be said of the Model S. If I didn’t quite cover that to your liking, sorry.

[Reaganez]

I don't mind math errors.

It is not to my liking when someone is wrong AND tells me to read again and implicitly tells me I lack reading comprehension skills.

If this were a judged debate I would win because you have not responded to all my contentions as you have continued to post. So I am now done with this thread.

Good day.

[RckyRaCoCo]

"Yes my pet...just keep on breaking the bank...my greatest caper before I return to hell will be to destroy America...LOL!"

[al_c]

You win.