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Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At State Capitol
CBS ^ | 12/24/09 | Adam Harrington

Posted on 12/24/2009 7:49:55 AM PST by Former Fetus

A conservative activist and Illinois comptroller candidate was escorted from the Illinois State Capitol building Wednesday when he tried to remove a sign put up by an atheist group.

William J. Kelly announced Tuesday that he planned to take down the sign put up by the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and on Wednesday, he tried to make good on his plan.

But Kelly said when he turned the sign around so it was face down, state Capitol police were quick to escort him away.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbs2chicago.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: antichristmas; atheists; christmas; illinois; nativity; publicsquare
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Your statement in this post is at odds with your statements in others, including your petty “baby Jesus” post. You’ve been saying the lack of a direct mention in the Constitution means we’re not a Christian nation, but now you’re talking about the lack of a state church meaning we aren’t a Christian nation.

There is a vast difference between saying “We are a Christian nation, but we will not have a state church or religious tests” and saying “We will have a state church which you must join or risk being persecuted.” The fact that they didn’t say the second doesn’t mean they didn’t say the first.


101 posted on 12/25/2009 5:51:29 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: Mr. Silverback
...you’re talking about the lack of a state church meaning we aren’t a Christian nation.

No I'm not. They just didn't want to be a Methodist or Quaker nation. I said they were virtually all Christians.

your petty “baby Jesus” post.

It's not petty...it's a direct reference...besides, it's appropriate since it's Christmas. Nicen up.

Did you find it or not?

102 posted on 12/25/2009 5:58:05 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs, nothing more than bald haired hippies.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Did you find it or not?

Didn't look. As I recall there's no overt reference to the Almighty in the Constitution.

103 posted on 12/25/2009 6:53:20 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: Mr. Silverback

You sound just like the Liberal Activists who read crap into the Constitution that just isn’t there.


104 posted on 12/25/2009 7:05:14 PM PST by Diverdogz
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To: Former Fetus
The 2009 Winter Solstice occurred at 9:47 a.m. on Monday, December 21, 2009. Their event has now passed till next year. Time to stow the sign.
105 posted on 12/25/2009 7:16:50 PM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (The man who said "there's no such thing as a stupid question" has never talked to Helen Thomas.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Didn't look.

Well, you'll never find it that way.

As I recall there's no overt reference to the Almighty in the Constitution.

Yes there is, and it's a direct reference to Christ.

106 posted on 12/25/2009 7:43:20 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs, nothing more than bald haired hippies.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

If you consider the public square “government”, government has no business with any religious symbols either.

If however you consider the public square “the people”, then you allow the people their freedom of speech, so long as the speech is not incendiary.

And if it is incendiary, you handle it through the process, not by having a legislator sneak in and tear it down.

A mob could have shown up and torn the sign down. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but inciting mob violence would have proven that the sign was incendiary.


107 posted on 12/25/2009 8:01:22 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Diverdogz

I’m quite the opposite, since my interpretation is guided by original intent, not personal preference or the stupid idea of a “Living Constitution.”


108 posted on 12/25/2009 8:40:31 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Ah, that’s right, the Year of Our Lord.

OK, sorry for the friendly fire. Merry Christmas.


109 posted on 12/25/2009 8:43:36 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
If you consider the public square “government”, government has no business with any religious symbols either.

Do you understand how stupid we would look to past generations, when we write stuff like what you've written here, when we act like the idea that atheist Christophobes insulting people isn't admirable is the same as putting government in charge of free speech? Good grief. Moreover, I will repeat that there is a clear difference between the government opening the floor to any religion to promote their message and opening the floor to a message that is specifically designed to denigrate the others. One is pluralistic and neutral, the other is de facto hostility.

And if it is incendiary, you handle it through the process, not by having a legislator sneak in and tear it down.

I never endorsed it, I said it's silly to talk about respect when you have the state welcoming a sign that responds to symbols of peace and humor with unfounded attacks.

110 posted on 12/25/2009 8:50:55 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: montag813
"Communism was athiestic, and enslaved more minds than any force in history.

...never minding that atheists have also murdered more people than all the religions in history.

There is nothing more asinine or hypocritical than atheists carping about the evils of religion. While there may be such evils, the evils carried out by atheists in the "Atheist Century" (the 20th) surpass them all.

111 posted on 12/25/2009 9:25:45 PM PST by cookcounty (Let us not speak of the honor of men. Rather, let us bind them with the Constitution. --Jefferson)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Very Nice!

A candy cane and lots of goodwill towards Mr Silverback. It was a pleasure bantering with you.

Merry Christmas and a Joyeous New Year to everyone.

Rocklobster.


112 posted on 12/26/2009 3:31:12 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs, nothing more than bald haired hippies.)
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To: GL of Sector 2814
That was another sophomoric gratuitous insult

You voluntarily came to a religion site and expected adults?
Your name is now on the purge list.

113 posted on 12/26/2009 5:48:12 AM PST by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
If the State is responsible for deciding which of the people's messages is acceptable, and which should be censored, the State is then responsible for the messages.

In modern jurispudence, that is unacceptable. Sure, it's nice to think back to the olden days where schools actually taught bible lessons, where Christianity was part of most governments, and where there was no question about putting a nativity, or the 10 commandments, or allowing prayer in, public places.

But you deal with the world we live in, not the one we wish we still had. A legislator tearing down a sign he doesn't like is a fast pass to banning all displays next year.

I will repeat that there is a clear difference between the government opening the floor to any religion to promote their message and opening the floor to a message that is specifically designed to denigrate the others. One is pluralistic and neutral

I think you underestimate the message of the Nativity for those who refuse to believe God has control over their lives. People were stoned for expressing their own belief in Jesus's birth and saving death. It may make no sense that people who don't believe in God would be upset about the "foolishness" of others who do, but in reality all men are created in the image of God, and at some level I believe they understand where they fit into the natural order.

So the Nativity, far from being a pluralistic, neutral message of love for all, is to the atheist a reminder that his belief in the supremacy of man is faulty, that his denouncement of God is his death sentence, and that his rejection of this Baby lying in a manger is his ticket to eternal torment.

We read the history of Jesus sending his disciples out into the world to preach what to us is a loving, inclusive message -- God loved the world so much that he sent his ownly Begotten Son. But Jesus noted that his disciples would be rejected by many, and that they should shake the dust off their feet and move on.

On the other hand, Jesus said "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake".

The hateful message of the Atheist, next to what we see as the inviting message of the nativity, could well be the thing that brings some to Christ, and away from their ignorant disregard for the truth of the existance of God.

114 posted on 12/26/2009 6:43:11 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: 200 Motels

“If we allow religious iconography on public lands, then it has to be open to all. Freedom of speech is tough, but we are a free country. Either let everyone put something up, or no one put something up, we don’t have a state religion in America.”
___________

Amen


115 posted on 12/26/2009 9:20:23 AM PST by awake-n-angry
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To: little jeremiah

It is an adamant religious belief that denounce all other belief systems. It is a religion.


116 posted on 12/26/2009 11:49:00 AM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: Mr. Silverback
"There is no God" is a faith statement. It's not something that can be verified by any method except being personally omniscient.

Based on many statements by atheists on internet forums, most atheists do believe themselves to be at least functionally omniscient.

117 posted on 12/26/2009 2:22:48 PM PST by dan1123 (Free condoms for teens to have safe sex is like giving them bullet-proof vests for safe gun play)
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To: dan1123

True!


118 posted on 12/26/2009 2:31:56 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! Only a hippopotamus will do!)
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To: montag813
If religion enslaves minds, as he posited, then clearly the absence of religion frees minds.

Any ideology can be used to enslave minds. He just has a thing against religion.

119 posted on 12/26/2009 10:59:19 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: GL of Sector 2814
Guess you can't catch on huh? Too much for what ya have upstairs? It should be removed since it is on state property and expresses an opinion, unless it is the opinion of the state. (That's what liberals believe, so lets be "fair")

Personally, i would just pour some lighter fluid on it and claim artistic expression.

120 posted on 12/27/2009 3:27:06 AM PST by Plumberman27
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