60 votes are required to open the floor to debate, and to close debate. Only 51 are required to pass.
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From MW18787
Here is the real answer.
This week: Once the cloture votes are secure (they are), now Reid only needs 51 on final passage.
In 2010, however, whether there is a conference report or if they play ping-pong between the two chambers, the Senate will require another cloture vote — thus requiring 60 votes to shut off debate. Anyone who says anything to the contrary is wrong.
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Okay. First, MW and EZ, thank you both for your quick responses. I've quoted you both above.
There's a difference in your answers. Now they could both be right but I've been going round and round with this point and can't seem to get any two people to give me the same answer.
Let me state now that I do understand that the truth is that only 51 votes is ever needed; that the 60 vote thing is a SENATE rule only, not anything in the constitution.
EZ says you only need 51 votes to pass but require 60 votes to re-open the debate. Well if you need 60 votes for cloture it makes sense that to reopen you would need 60 votes.
MW says that a 60 vote will be needed whether there's a conference report or not....specifically to "reopen" the debate.
Could be you are both saying the same thing...the part about "reopening" the debate? But why would you need to reopen the debate if there are no changes in the conference report?
And to clarify please EZ's assertion that only 51 are needed to pass it....would this a 51 "nuclear" option or a 51 "budget reconciliation" option?
Cause first time one party violates that senate gentlemen's agreement about filibusters and 60 vote rules there will be no need to ever adhere to it again. It's why it's considered a nuclear option and neither party wants to be the one to throw it overboard for the time when THEY gain power.
I understand that the 51 vote rule is considered okay for budget items that such simple things are not held up by filibusters and the like.
Once Reid closes debate this week (dunno if next cloture vote was earlier today or tonight), he only needs 51 on final passage tomorrow morning. The 60 is to shut off debate, the 51 is to pass the bill.
In 2010, when there is a conference report or ping-pong process, the Senate will not require a cloture vote to start debate; they will need another cloture vote (60) to again shut off debate. If they secure the next 60, then they can proceed to final passage with 51.
It is hoped that the 60 this week is Reid’s high water mark; that he’ll never again be able to muster 60 when the House makes the bill more liberal. Ben Nelson may come running back to filibuster the bill when he experiences the intense Hell he is about to endure.