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The bondage of debt
Renew America ^
| 2009-12-19
| Ken Connor
Posted on 12/20/2009 5:57:02 AM PST by rabscuttle385
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To: wafflehouse; Leisler; PAR35; TigerLikesRooster; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; ...
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The Money, Banking, and Financial Markets Ping List. "Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations." THOMAS JEFFERSON FR Keywords: moneylist, bankinglist, financelist Please tag all relevant threads with the aforementioned keywords. This can be a very high-volume ping list at times. Ping list jointly pinged by rabscuttle385 and TigerLikesRooster. To join the ping list: FReepmail rabscuttle385 with the subject line add moneylist. (Stop getting pings by sending the subject line drop moneylist.) |
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2
posted on
12/20/2009 5:58:17 AM PST
by
rabscuttle385
(Purge the RINOs! * http://restoretheconstitution.ning.com/)
To: rabscuttle385
Things will get so bad that Obama will declare the end of the US Dollar, and we will go to the "Amero" or whatever they want to call the new currency.
Can we "reset" our debt after that?
![](http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=http://thetimehascome.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/20081226reset.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGh_aWLu8uVM9qyOeG1PBDmGhbaWw)
I am sure China would have something to say about that.
I don't know what will happen. But the biblical words about being a slave to money are a true today as ever.
3
posted on
12/20/2009 6:14:23 AM PST
by
SkyPilot
To: rabscuttle385
Hey, hey, BHO.....!
Where did all your spending go?
To: rabscuttle385
Do we really think that our government has any intention of “paying off” the debt? Not in my grand-children’s lifetime!
The yearly cost of debt service alone will exceed what used to be an expensive budget. Long term, we will be further imprisoned financially by the progressives. This is their plan. WAKE UP FOLKS. We are on that slippery slope.
5
posted on
12/20/2009 6:51:23 AM PST
by
BatGuano
(You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
To: SkyPilot
America is full of debt serfs.
To: rabscuttle385; CSM
‘Dave on a much larger scale,’ Ping!
7
posted on
12/20/2009 6:55:54 AM PST
by
Diana in Wisconsin
(Save the Earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.)
To: SkyPilot
Things will get so bad that Obama will declare the end of the US Dollar, and we will go to the "Amero" or whatever they want to call the new currency. You might have been kidding with this comment - but it could happen. It would explain some of the choices being made...
8
posted on
12/20/2009 9:51:15 AM PST
by
GOPJ
(Journalists as BaghdadBobLite - Global Warming Scientists as ElmerGantry - what's happening?)
To: GOPJ
No, I wasn't kidding.
Three years ago on FR, I said this and I was put into the 'black helicopter' echelon.
And now, here we are:
US backing for world currency stuns markets - - US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner shocked global markets by revealing that Washington is "quite open" to Chinese proposals for the gradual development of a global reserve currency run by the International Monetary Fund.
China proposes a new world currency
I lived in Europe when the Euro went into effect overnight. At midnight on a cold January, the ATM machines were all emptied of Deutschmarks and Euros replaced them.
Then next morning, we were on the Euro.
We will probably start with an "Amero" to include South America, Mexico, Central America, and Canada.
![](http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=http://www.survivetoday.net/images/amerodorado1.jpg&usg=AFQjCNG_RGocWETkcD6cnqvTrwe5pqgssw)
Then, all currencies can merge. Or, we could just skip the "Amero" and go to whatever it is the powers at be say it will be.
As a Christian, I believe scriptures point to a one world currency someday in the future. The Anti-Chirst needs this in order to enforce forced worship of himself.
9
posted on
12/20/2009 11:18:03 AM PST
by
SkyPilot
To: rabscuttle385
Interest on capital is a perfectly legitimate form of income that the lender entirely deserves. Attacking debt or interest is an unjust red herring. If you don't want the *spending*, oppose the *spending*. Not the manner in which it is paid for. If you are buying something actually worth having, debt is fine as a means of financing it, if the rates are good. If you are wasting wealth on crap you do not need, it doesn't matter a damn whether you paid for it with taxes or borrowed it - it is a waste either way.
10
posted on
12/20/2009 12:35:19 PM PST
by
JasonC
To: BiggieLittle
A debt voluntarily contracted is not servitude. You don't want to pay the interest, don't borrow the capital in the first place. You want to use the capital, then pay for it honestly, don't smear the lender.
"Oh but I didn't contract it voluntarily, it is political spending" - that is why we are a democracy and elect our representatives. Unelect the profligate who buy things we do not need.
You aren't enslaved or made a serf by a particle of it. We just haven't been winning free elections we can't afford to lose, and too many in all parties have been willing to overspend on useless crap, trying to buy votes.
11
posted on
12/20/2009 12:38:39 PM PST
by
JasonC
To: SkyPilot
You caught this one early... that's good. I think there's a good chance too - and I don't want to get stuck paying more in the new money (for debt) than the old - which is why I'm going to absolutely ZERO debt. (other than water and electric...) I think the negotiations for the new money will be punitive..
12
posted on
12/20/2009 1:52:57 PM PST
by
GOPJ
(Journalists as BaghdadBobLite - Global Warming Scientists as ElmerGantry - what's happening?)
To: JasonC
I’m not smearing the lender. I’m smearing the borrower. People in America have voluntarily become debt serfs.
To: GOPJ
It's always good to be out of debt. Who knows what the price of the "new money" will be.
Also, if you have debt, hyperinflation will cause that debt to be virtually worthless if salaries are forced to rise to keep pace.
So, who knows what the real strategy should be.
One thing is for sure, China will one day be able to buy this country for pennies on the dollar, and they probably will.
14
posted on
12/20/2009 3:13:00 PM PST
by
SkyPilot
To: BiggieLittle
Serfdom is not a voluntary condition. You are smearing the lenders. Anything that pretends that voluntary action is enslavement or that repaying debts as owed is coercive, is class warfare crap and socialist rhetoric directed at creditors. In case everyone just forgot, we are in the middle of a recession largely caused by epidemic deadbeat behavior by reckless profligates. Telling them they are poor downtrodden deserving victims and those they stole from are slavedrivers, is exactly *not* what the doctor ordered. And that is what everything that pretends demanding repayment of debts is slavery, does.
15
posted on
12/20/2009 5:31:23 PM PST
by
JasonC
To: SkyPilot
China will never be able to buy this country, or even the parts of it actually for sale. The US is five times wealthier than China and twenty times wealthier per person. Stop slandering your own country, it is obscene, as well as inaccurate.
16
posted on
12/20/2009 5:33:11 PM PST
by
JasonC
To: SkyPilot
I agree we're going to have inflation - but the “new currency” will trap more people - just like housing prices of old. It'll be recalculated to reflect the “real price” and all the benefit from inflation will disappear. So I'm doing a compromise - I'm buying the big ticket items I need ( new central AC - high efficiency - Carrier Infinity ) etc - but I'm not borrowing to buy anything... I get the benefit of today's prices without the risk of tomorrow’s currency. But who knows what direction things will go - what's your best bet, skypilot?
17
posted on
12/20/2009 6:09:44 PM PST
by
GOPJ
(Journalists as BaghdadBobLite - Global Warming Scientists as ElmerGantry - what's happening?)
To: GOPJ
I think you have a great strategy. The bible says (paraphrase) that neither should you be a borrower or a lender. God constantly states he hates usury, and also that he knows debt makes people slaves.
I know things will radically change soon, I just am not sure what I want to do with my situation. I am actually considering taking out a new mortgage on a new property, because the Fed is keeping interest rates at 0% for banks right now, and the 30 yr fixed rate is extremely low. In a few years, we may be back to 1981 rates of 21% (or worse) to purchase a home - and the window to move up in a house may be closed for decades to come.
In terms of who they will recalculate the money to reflect the "real" price, that is going to be interesting. I know when I was living in Europe, it was a real crap shoot, and it also ticked off consumers. The DM was basically worth about 60 cents to a dollar. The Euro came in overnight, and was trading for approx 80 cents. But, average Germans who were paying 5 Deutsch marks for this and 10 Deutsch marks for that, suddenly found themselves paying 5 Euros and 10 Euros for the exact same products!
All the merchants did was switch price tags. People were livid. There were calls for government action, but those were slow. Well, anyway, after a few weeks, it all sort of settled down on its own, because the market took over. A store selling jackets for 500 Euros could not compete with one that sold them for 299 Euros, and prices went back to "normal."
As for debt, I cannot imagine (even banks) re-adjusting your debt for a higher interest rate if you get the low fixed now. That is a violation of basic contract law, it the courts would (probably) not allow it, but who knows? I don't trust the courts on iota.
![](http://media.washingtontimes.com/media/img/photos/2008/11/15/ef2558abf2904f58aff2138ac09cd22f.jpg)
Can they take the $300K you owe on a house, and know that $300K is worth only, lets say, $50K in Euros, "convert" it to $300,000 Ameros?
Or, if the one world currency is implemented overnight, and not in increments, how would this play out?
Don't know.
18
posted on
12/21/2009 3:41:09 AM PST
by
SkyPilot
To: JasonC
19
posted on
12/21/2009 3:44:12 AM PST
by
SkyPilot
To: SkyPilot
Yes, I know exactly what I am talking about...
The ingraditude of present day Americans toward their unprecedented prosperity is one of the greatest moral outrages in human history, and I for one and profoundly sick of it.
Stop your whining, you useless ingrates...
20
posted on
12/21/2009 4:21:08 AM PST
by
JasonC
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