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Public gasps at Lake Michigan wind farm images
Oceana Herald Journal ^ | 12/16/09 | John Cavanagh

Posted on 12/16/2009 1:07:52 PM PST by reaganrevolutionin2010

A collective gasp was heard when computer enhanced photographs depicting numerous wind turbine generators were shown in Lake Michigan off Pentwater harbor and Little Point Sable at informational meeting in Scottville Tuesday night.

The photos were included as part of the public presentation before a full house at West Shore Community College by wind farm developer Scandia Wind LLC.

“It’s (Lake Michigan) more beautiful without them. Even I recognize that,” said Harald Dirdal, a project manager with Havgul Clean Energy of Norway.

Scandia Wind LLC is exploring the possibility of constructing an estimated $3 billion, 1,000 megawatt wind farm in Lake Michigan over a 100 square mile area from the Ludington Pumped Storage facility to Silver Lake.

(Excerpt) Read more at oceanaheraldjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banana; energy; michigan; nimby; wind; windfarms
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To: DungeonMaster
It's implicit in the Denmark discussion. They supposedly get 18% of their energy from wind, but as the article said, they haven't closed any power plants, and have to run the old ones all the time in order to insure even power distribution.

So why are they doing this? Ans: Cause it makes them feel better and intellectually superior typical lib reasoning.

61 posted on 12/26/2009 10:49:24 AM PST by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: DungeonMaster

Burp. :-)


62 posted on 12/26/2009 10:49:52 AM PST by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: DungeonMaster

“The word backup does not occur in that list of complaints.”

Sporadic power sources will not be viable until every end user has a UPS system capable of picking up the slack during direct-generation shortfalls.

That means big ass batteries.


63 posted on 12/26/2009 10:54:31 AM PST by PLMerite (Ride to the sound of the Guns - I'll probably need help.)
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To: Lakeshark
Because of the intermittency and variability of the wind, conventional power plants must be kept running at full capacity to meet the actual demand for electricity.

This is not a true statment. I can't fight a false statement if that's what you've decided to believe.

64 posted on 12/26/2009 10:59:26 AM PST by DungeonMaster (camel, eye of a needle; rich man, heaven)
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To: DungeonMaster
From the article: Yet no conventional power plant has been shut down. Because of the intermittency and variability of the wind, conventional power plants must be kept running at full capacity to meet the actual demand for electricity.

Sorry, you're the one who is a believer. You're not dealing with the fact that sometimes (much more often than we'd like) the wind does not turn the turbine because it's not blowing. If they find a way to store the power, then the game changes, but until then, please get off your horse. It doesn't work, it doesn't help. It just makes the wind believers feel good for their imagined superiority and morality.

65 posted on 12/26/2009 11:07:43 AM PST by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: Lakeshark
It just makes the wind believers feel good for their imagined superiority and morality.

It's clear who is feeling superior, I never once got personal.

66 posted on 12/26/2009 11:11:24 AM PST by DungeonMaster (camel, eye of a needle; rich man, heaven)
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To: DungeonMaster

It wasn’t personal to you, but it was a diss of wind believers who won’t deal with the very real and serious problems of the technology. Wind power is fine for some apllications, great for farms that need to pump water, or for people who have no grid and can handle intermittent power. It’s simply not ready to be a player en masse and all the wishing or hoping or labelling it as free and clean isn’t going to make the turbines generate power when the wind isn’t blowing.


67 posted on 12/26/2009 11:16:43 AM PST by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: DungeonMaster

During periods of low demand, excess power is used to pump water
from Lake Sinclair upstream into Lake Oconee;
during periods of high demand, water from Lake Oconee turns generators
as it gravity flows back into Lake Sinclair.

This has been going on for while ~ thirty years or so ~ on the Oconee River.


68 posted on 12/26/2009 4:15:21 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: reaganrevolutionin2010

But Teddy didn’t want windmills out his window.


69 posted on 12/26/2009 4:19:54 PM PST by lonestar (Obama and his czars have turned Bush's "mess" into a national crisis!)
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To: DungeonMaster

some wiki info re pumped storage:
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
-
The topic of electrical power generation has lots of things to consider
The biggest problem is there is no viable technology
for storage of electricity.
Base load vs. peak load is just one of the interesting topics.
The base load on a grid is mostly maintained by steam generating plants
(all of the nuclear plants and most of the fossil fuel plants
that take several days to come up to efficient operating conditions).
The peak loads on that grid must be provided for by some other type of plant
because the demands are variable and instantaneous
(typically these are natural gas turbines, but ‘pumped storage’
and once-through hydro plants, although both are small contributors,
also fit into this niche).

So in this line of thinking, we have to consider
where do things like wind and solar fit into this mix?
Sure they can contribute to satisfy the overall demand,
but their output is unreliable either for handling the base load or the peak load
so some other generating capacity has to maintained on constant standby
to handle the demand during the windless periods and the sunless periods.


70 posted on 12/26/2009 7:36:41 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: Repeal The 17th

Very good post completely devoid of misinformation or prejudice.


71 posted on 12/28/2009 8:03:10 AM PST by DungeonMaster (camel, eye of a needle; rich man, heaven)
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To: reaganrevolutionin2010
No windmills. I want floating nuke plants.

Lots of 'em.

72 posted on 12/28/2009 8:08:29 AM PST by uglybiker (BACON!!)
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To: Lakeshark
It wasn’t personal to you, but it was a diss of wind believers who won’t deal with the very real and serious problems of the technology.

It seemed personal. It's fine for you to have problems with wind energy but going personal isn't.

I understand how the grid works and I realize that there are spinning reserves waiting to go on line. I also understand that demand rises and falls in a very predictable way every day and this all has to be managed to within about 1 percent supply exactly matching demand on the grid at all times. But it is not correct to think that no other resource is saved when wind power is on the grid. I have no doubt at all that Denmark could screw up their use of wind energy or a soup sandwitch for that matter. I loathe Countries where Homeschooling is illegal. But here in Iowa, we have 3,000 mw of wind power which produce about 7,000,000 mhwr of power in a year. That power goes to the grid and something else is curtailed. I agree that said curtailment is not 100 percent.

73 posted on 12/28/2009 8:38:34 AM PST by DungeonMaster (camel, eye of a needle; rich man, heaven)
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