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To: frithguild
Garry Wills is both a very talented and a very conflicted guy. Though a professing Catholic, he dismisses all Catholic teachings concerning sexuality—-- the definition of holy matrimony, the Scripturally based prohibition on divorce and female ordination, natural law arguments against homosexuality and contraception --—as “dishonest, naïve, or stupid on their face.”

This is not a guy I would go with confidence to tutor me about sexual morality.

Nor would I trust his re-casting of history. Wills is the guy who portrays King Henry VIII of England as a “loyal son of the Church” whose hand was forced by Pope Clement VII, who stupidly refused to condone the dumping of loyal Queen Catherine for her vivacious and fecund lady-in-waiting, Anne Boleyn.

So lets set Wills aside for the nonce, shall we?

To our subject: it is understandable that some men of good will who are deeply conflicted by their sexuality would seek to live honorably under vows of celibacy; however, they should never have been accepted as ordinands, and would not have been if seminary rectors had been obedient to Pope John XXIII's ruling in 1962 that nobody with a significant homosexual tendency should be admitted to the priesthood.

Yes, it was a matter of disobedience. The problem is not that the conduct of the clerical state was so Catholic, but that it was not Catholic enough.

Pretty clear in hindsight, isn't it?

50 posted on 12/08/2009 1:45:25 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God." 1 Peter 4:17)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
So lets set Wills aside for the nonce, shall we?

Pardon me, but did I identify myself as an acolyte of Wills or did I say he wrote an "interesting discussion"?

The problem is not that the conduct of the clerical state was so Catholic, but that it was not Catholic enough. Pretty clear in hindsight, isn't it?

Not really. Your argument presumes that the seminary rectors have the ability to perceive homosexual tendencies, or, not mentioned in "Careful Selection And Training Of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders", tendency toward pedofilia, which are repressed by the candidate seeking ordination. At the same time, with the extradinory demands that the ordained be on a par with Christ and St Paul, the number seeking ordanation plumets, a fact well known to the seminary rectors.

We agree that clerical involvement in predatory pedifilia and homosexuality results from not be Catholic enough, but I disagree that humans, when acting on behalf of the Church and with the best of intentions are less, dare I say "fallible," than any other. Catholics should not presume to be any more discerning than any other group of people.

I am sorry. I think the Papacy has badly misinterpreted St Paul and Matthew 19. The rock upon which the church was built was married, yet now there is little to no room for priests of the same status. If Peter were alive today, his desire for ordination would be spurned. The result is the overepresentation of repressed pedifiles and homosexuals among those seeking ordination.

52 posted on 12/08/2009 2:45:02 PM PST by frithguild (Can I drill your head now?)
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