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To: Behemoth the Cat
" if we want electricity, nuclear energy, antibiotics, cancer cures et caetera, we also have to use our material eyes, eyes and microscopes."

Partly yes, and partly no.

First, nuclear energy, electricity, physics, and mathematics do not in any way challenge our spiritual knowledge, so they are not relevant to the question.

When you get into cancer, and antibiotics, its a very different story. Antibiotics are shortening lives every day, and their use is in defiance of God's word, which tells us the "herbs of the field" and "every green leaf" are provided for our health, and they definitely do a good job. Cancer 'cures' do the same as all the other drugs. Sometimes there is remission during treatment, but in the long run the treatments shorten life, even in those that experience remission. The real cure for cancer is to remove the original cause, which in the preponderance of cases is a spiritual issue. (bitternewss, hatred, unforgiveness, blaming God, or any other form of 'toxic' thought) Some illness is due to use of chemicals without regard for the effect on the body, and some cancers fall into this category, but the main rule still applies: remove the cause.

What you call "mailstream Christianity" bears little resemblance to what is described in God's word. I don't mean to attack any particular denomination; they're all in deep do-do, and we are at the point announced in Revelation where we are told to "come out of her" referring to the "harlot" that organized religion has become.

199 posted on 12/03/2009 5:37:35 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor

“Antibiotics are shortening lives every day, and their use is in defiance of God’s word...”

What? You are an ignorant menace, and I hope that you shun all human contact and live a Unabomber lifestyle. Inflicting your perverse interpretation of God’s word on family members would be sinful and criminal.

I generally derive brief entertainment from your skewed morality, but this is far too sick and serious to make a coffee enema joke about.


203 posted on 12/03/2009 6:05:28 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: editor-surveyor
"First, nuclear energy, electricity, physics, and mathematics do not in any way challenge our spiritual knowledge, so they are not relevant to the question."

Actually yes, they do. For example, if you want to undermine radioisotope dating (by claiming that radioactive decay rates can change enough to accommodate the '6,000' number), then nuclear physics goes out of the window. And quantum mechanics (which explains the mechanism of decay). And mathematics (which is the foundation of quantum mechanics)...

Contemporary science works differently than science 400 years ago. Back then science meant collecting largely unrelated observations. At some point the amount of accumulated knowledge reached a critical point, and in addition to gathering observations, we started rationalizing, developing interdisciplinary fields of research and translating the results into technology. Scientific observations are no longer isolated. They are interrelated, and you just can't take one piece away whenever you wish without explaining why other areas of scientific research still testify to the validity of this inconvenient piece. Contemporary science comes as a package. Unfortunately, evolutionary biology matches the rest of the package. While one can claim that atheists corrupt biology to fit their atheist agenda, can you really say the same about mathematics, physics, geology, computer science and so on, and remain rational? And this leads us back to the my initial question from #156: "Do you have any SERIOUS suggestion how we can make the world our dominion (Genesis) while locking ourselves out in the purely spiritual reality of literally interpreted Bible and prayer?"

"Antibiotics are shortening lives every day, and their use is in defiance of God's word, which tells us the "herbs of the field" and "every green leaf" are provided for our health, and they definitely do a good job

First, most antibiotics (e.g. penicillins) are either natural compounds, or are derived from natural compounds. So the allegation of defiance is unfounded. Second, the natural forms initially worked, and then stopped. If the initial efficiency was according to God's will, restoring it by introducing the modifications to their structures was also according to God's will. Third, it is simply not true that antibiotics shorten lives. It's just that many people lost the proper perspective. If you had lived 100 years ago, the prevalence of deaths from TB, childbirth infections or simple pneumonia would have given you the proper perspective with regard to sulfonamides and penicillin.

Finally, while I can to some degree agree with your condemnation of organized religion, I also want to make the following observation: The mainstream, organized religion at least managed to deal with the mess created by Copernicus and literalists within the Church. You guys still need to define your attitude toward science and, more generally, toward observable reality.

209 posted on 12/03/2009 6:28:53 PM PST by Behemoth the Cat
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To: editor-surveyor
Antibiotics are shortening lives every day, and their use is in defiance of God's word...

The real cure for cancer is to remove the original cause, which in the preponderance of cases is a spiritual issue. (bitternewss, hatred, unforgiveness, blaming God, or any other form of 'toxic' thought)

This is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever seen someone post on the internet.

252 posted on 12/03/2009 9:24:15 PM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh --- Robert A. Heinlein)
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