It is not that simple. I am not Catholic. But I have many Catholic friends who are pro choice. They are divided about this. Saying they are not Catholic does not make it so. They consider themselves Catholic and that is all that matters. It is not up to us to say if they are or they are not.
Uh, yes it does. If they are Pro-Choice, they are not Catholic.
Let me make this simple for you, in the Catholic faith, life begins at conception, there is no pro-choice stand as a Catholic, to claim to be Pro-Choice as a catholic is to be Pro-Murder, period.
If you believe this you are not Catholic, you can sit in the pew every sunday all you want, but you are not a practicing Catholic, no matter how much you dillude yourself to the contrary.
Considering oneself Catholic does not make one Catholic.. I can “consider” myself African-American, but that does not make it so. Your “catholic” friends that are pro-choice, are living completely at odds with the Catholic faith, so by very definition they are not Cathlic, no matter what they “consider” themselves.
It is up to the Church to say whether or not someone is in communion with it. The individual's opinion is irrelevant.
“It is not that simple.”
Yeah, it really is that simple. In an issue such as this, there is a clear line to be drawn. Call yourself what you want to....if you support abortion, you are not a Catholic.
Militant
You are correct to say it is not that simple. The Church does not assert that those who reject the Church’s teaching on abortion are not Catholic. What the Church says is that they are not in full communion, or unity, with the Church.
This excerpt from Bishop Tobin’s letter to Kennedy more fully explains it:
(you write) “The fact that I disagree with the hierarchy on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic.” Well, in fact, Congressman, in a way it does. Although I wouldn’t choose those particular words, when someone rejects the teachings of the Church, especially on a grave matter, a life-and-death issue like abortion, it certainly does diminish their ecclesial communion, their unity with the Church. This principle is based on the Sacred Scripture and Tradition of the Church and is made more explicit in recent documents.
For example, the “Code of Canon Law” says, “Lay persons are bound by an obligation and possess the right to acquire a knowledge of Christian doctrine adapted to their capacity and condition so that they can live in accord with that doctrine.” (Canon 229, #1)
The “Catechism of the Catholic Church” says this: “Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles, ‘He who hears you, hears me,’ the faithful receive with docility the teaching and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.” (#87)
Or consider this statement of the Church: “It would be a mistake to confuse the proper autonomy exercised by Catholics in political life with the claim of a principle that prescinds from the moral and social teaching of the Church.” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 2002)
There’s lots of canonical and theological verbiage there, Congressman, but what it means is that if you don’t accept the teachings of the Church your communion with the Church is flawed, or in your own words, makes you “less of a Catholic.”
But let’s get down to a more practical question; let’s approach it this way: What does it mean, really, to be a Catholic? After all, being a Catholic has to mean something, right?
Well, in simple terms – and here I refer only to those more visible, structural elements of Church membership – being a Catholic means that you’re part of a faith community that possesses a clearly defined authority and doctrine, obligations and expectations. It means that you believe and accept the teachings of the Church, especially on essential matters of faith and morals; that you belong to a local Catholic community, a parish; that you attend Mass on Sundays and receive the sacraments regularly; that you support the Church, personally, publicly, spiritually and financially.
Congressman, I’m not sure whether or not you fulfill the basic requirements of being a Catholic, so let me ask: Do you accept the teachings of the Church on essential matters of faith and morals, including our stance on abortion? Do you belong to a local Catholic community, a parish? Do you attend Mass on Sundays and receive the sacraments regularly? Do you support the Church, personally, publicly, spiritually and financially?
In your letter you say that you “embrace your faith.” Terrific. But if you don’t fulfill the basic requirements of membership, what is it exactly that makes you a Catholic? Your baptism as an infant? Your family ties? Your cultural heritage?
Your letter also says that your faith “acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity.” Absolutely true. But in confronting your rejection of the Church’s teaching, we’re not dealing just with “an imperfect humanity” – as we do when we wrestle with sins such as anger, pride, greed, impurity or dishonesty. We all struggle with those things, and often fail.
Your rejection of the Church’s teaching on abortion falls into a different category – it’s a deliberate and obstinate act of the will; a conscious decision that you’ve re-affirmed on many occasions. Sorry, you can’t chalk it up to an “imperfect humanity.” Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your communion with the Church.
Congressman Kennedy, I write these words not to embarrass you or to judge the state of your conscience or soul. That’s ultimately between you and God. But your description of your relationship with the Church is now a matter of public record, and it needs to be challenged. I invite you, as your bishop and brother in Christ, to enter into a sincere process of discernment, conversion and repentance. It’s not too late for you to repair your relationship with the Church, redeem your public image, and emerge as an authentic “profile in courage,” especially by defending the sanctity of human life for all people, including unborn children. And if I can ever be of assistance as you travel the road of faith, I would be honored and happy to do so.
Incorrect. Unlike some other faith traditions, the teachings of the Catholic Church are quite well and clearly defined, and not subject to private interpretation. Particularly on subjects like abortion, one does not have to be Catholic (or even Christian of any sort) to know and understand what the Church teaches on the matter.
These people may "consider themselves Catholic" ... but then the asylums are filled with folks who fancy themselves to be Napoleon ... or to be a turnip.
But I have many Catholic friends who are pro choice.
No you don't.
You actually have many friends who are former Catholics, though even they themselves may not realize it.
It’s not up to them, it’s up to the Church and the Church says that a Catholic cannot support abortion period. If you don’t like the rules join another club.
Articles like this and your friends of compromised faith have left you confused, re: “and that is all that matters.”
Please Google “latae sententiae” and you will see what matters. It’s part of Catholic Canon Law and is not negotiable.
Abiding by Canon Law is how you remain a Catholic. And, as you can see by the Bishop’s actions, it is up to us, the faithful, to counsel those who have fallen or have been confused by others.
I am a Catholic. I am pro-life. And, there are no Catholics on the other side of the fence. There is no division, only heretics or the faithful.
Thank you. All the best.
Ummmmm...methinks they need to have a conversation with their parish priest. They can consider themselves "Catholic" all they want, but that in and of itself does not make it so.
I was not Catholic for the first 43 years of my life...I wasn't religious at all. 12 years ago, I converted, and spiritually, I still feel like I'm taking baby steps.
In those 12 years, I have learned that there's a whole lot more than just saying "I'm Catholic". For your friends' sake, they need to reconcile themselves to God, and be serious about it.
It’s up to GOD, and GOD says they are NOT CATHOLICS.....period.....they can believe whatever they want to, but GOD says it’s a HUGE SIN and AGAONST CATHOLIC TEACHING.