Posted on 11/18/2009 3:22:56 AM PST by cold start
The INS Viraat left refit a month ago and it’s Harriers are getting an upgrade-Anyway it’s primary purpose will be fleet escort and ASW work, not attaining air superiority against any navy-it’s a job it can do with helicopters backed by land based fighters.
Where did you get the number of phased air radar equipped Chinese ships as five???Most sources put them at 2.And if they were so good, why did the PLAN build two older escort vessels equipped with the Russian Rif and not Chinese HQ-9??? And there is no conclusive proof that the PLAN has AIP equipped subs other than fan boy websites. And your assertion that each of China’s fleets is better than the whole Indian navy-well how many ships does the PLAN have deployed in the Indian Ocean??? None, because they also have to take care of Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam and of course the US of A.
About Chinese bases in the IOR-there are NONE yet. Most Chinese “allies” in the region are a bunch of dirt poor states such as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar which survive on Indian benevolence. The only real ally is Pakistan which is a failed state surviving on US and Saudi handouts.
Only a very small fraction of the chinese fleet is capable of being deployed to IOR
Any chinese attempt to enter IOR has to cross malacca straits
and then the Indian Andaman island bases and it is a several thousand mile journey
Next the entire Indian land mass is effectively a giant aircraft carrier, since most of the IOR is targetable by Indian land based missiles and planes
bump
Ok, again:
MAritime Strike Force:
What exactly is the PLAN’s capability in this area?
I know that the IAF has coastal defence capability based upon Mig-29’s and Jaguar IM’s.
Now tell me, what is the PLAN using for coastal defence?
And what maritime strike capability does the PLAN have? IN may have 14 carrier based harriers, and 1 carrier, but thats up against ZERO carrier based aircraft, and ZERO carriers for the PLAN.
“The INS Viraat left refit a month ago and it’s Harriers are getting an upgrade-Anyway it’s primary purpose will be fleet escort and ASW work, not attaining air superiority against any navy-it’s a job it can do with helicopters backed by land based fighters.”
So bottom line, the carrier is from 1953, it’s old Harriers has maintenance issues due to lack of spare parts. I really don’t see this carrier as a significant factor, especially since the PLAN has deployed satellite-guided carrier killers:
http://www.military.com/news/article/April-2009/new-concerns-over-chinese-carrier-killer.html
Without fleet-wide air defense, the Viraat would be sunk within the first hour of a shooting war.
“Where did you get the number of phased air radar equipped Chinese ships as five???Most sources put them at 2.And if they were so good, why did the PLAN build two older escort vessels equipped with the Russian Rif and not Chinese HQ-9??? “
It’s actually 4 fleet air defense ships deployed: 2 type 051Cs(with Russian Phase array radars) and 2 type 052Cs (with Indigenous Phase array radars). With supposedly a third 052C under construction.
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/vessel.asp
“And there is no conclusive proof that the PLAN has AIP equipped subs other than fan boy websites.”
They apparently have 6 AIP equipped Kilos and 4 AIP equipped Yuans according to all the public sources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_041_submarine
http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/submarine_database/submarines.asp
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/yuan.asp
“And your assertion that each of China’s fleets is better than the whole Indian navy-well how many ships does the PLAN have deployed in the Indian Ocean??? None, because they also have to take care of Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam and of course the US of A.”
I’m just stating the obvious. On a qualitative level, each of the 3 Chinese fleets are minimally equipped with a set of technologies and deployed capabilities that the entire Indian Navy does not currently possess. These are the following as I see them:
1. Nuclear and AIP Submarines
2. Fleet wide air defense ships
3. Long range LACMs and Satellite guided TBM/MRBMs
4. AWACs
5. Space-based targeting/guidance/early-warning assets
On top of the technological advantages, there is also the numerical advantage. The PLAN simply outnumbers the IN 3 to 1 in most categories.
“MAritime Strike Force:
What exactly is the PLAN’s capability in this area?”
To my understanding, the PLAN’s naval air wing consists of ~25 Su-30MKKs, ~100 JH-7As. ~100 J-8IIMs, ~100 J-7Es.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft.asp
“I know that the IAF has coastal defence capability based upon Mig-29’s and Jaguar IM’s.”
Training requirements are different between naval aviator pilots and air force pilots. Plane specifications(Radar, airframe) also needs to be modified due to different operating environments. For one thing, How will those IAF fighters even find enemy ships operating 400-500 kilometers from the Indian Coastline?
Yawn-so tell me how does the Chinese silver bullet anti-ship ballistic missile reach the Viraat in the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal??? All the sources you quoted are at best dubious.
About all the assets you talk about-how many of these are DEPLOYED against the IN-it’s one thing to have it in the South China Sea. Quiet another to have these in the Indian Ocean
“Yawn-so tell me how does the Chinese silver bullet anti-ship ballistic missile reach the Viraat in the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal??? All the sources you quoted are at best dubious.”
Umm....the DF-21C has a range of 2000km. When launched from South eastern China, it pretty covers most of the Indian Ocean.
Moreover, nobody is talking about an all out naval war in South Asia. I don’t think any country in the area wants that right now. I’m merely pointing out that given the numerical and qualitative superiority that the PLAN has over the IN, China has a significant influence in the South Asian region whether India want’s it or not.
This is similar to the U.S position. We are going to have influence in South Asia regardless of India’s concerns simply because America is the superpower. These are just facts on the ground.
Just like Obama, and Clinton for that matter. Ignore your friends, and kiss your enemy’s asses.
Umm ok, I should assume that a ballistic missile launched from China will be able to hit a moving carrier 2,000 km away-yeah right.
About Chinese capabilities-nobody’s doubting that. I’m only asking if any of it is IN THE REGION-how many warships and aircraft does the PLA have in South Asia????
The PLAN DF-21C anti-ship Ballistic Missile was confirmed by the USN earlier this year. They are apparently developing plans with their SM-3s to defend against it. Please read the link to the U.S Navy announcement on the reference that I cited earlier.
If you feel that you are correct and that the USN intelligence is wrong then that is your business.
>.As an aside, I know an awful lot of Indians who voted for BO.
Yes, and when they visit India, they will prolly get an earful if the hosts let down their politeness and etiquette.
Some here simply cannot understand why the Indians appreciate Bush and the amazing strides made in military to military cooperation between the two countries.
They are ignorant, despite being highly educated and succesful, and drank that Hawaiian KoolAid deeply.
Yeah, like Kal Penn.
What does US-intelligence say about Chinese DEPLOYMENTS in the Indian Ocean???? I’m still waiting to hear a word from you on that.
The DF-21 wonder weapon is obviously a threat but the not kind of silver bullet you are drumming it be based on some Chicom fanboy sites.
Because Obama’s a globalist. Fear his Midas Touch.
Unless they can draw a red dot on Obama’s forehead.
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