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To: MuttTheHoople

OK, I know I’ll get blasted for this...but I disagree about women serving in the military. Women have valiantly served in the military for quite some time—let’s get beyond this gender war. If a woman can do the job, handle the physical burdens, manage the stress, lead people...get over it, guys. We’re proud to have served with you, why can’t you do the same back to us? And let’s not even go further on the race issue—blacks, Italian American, Japanese Americans, German Americans, native Americans already had to fight tyranny in WWII and then returned home to face some prejudices still. Let’s get beyond that racial/cultural cr@p and stand united against those who want to destroy our country.

As for the benefits she or any other person might receive from serving in the military—those of us who served know we enjoyed those benefits for ourselves and our families, and the recruiters had to have some carrots to get us to join to begin with! The thing she and any other military member has to remember is the needs of the military always come first, so now she faces the consequences for not having a back-up plan to her family care plan. Several sad things here: her son is now definitely not gonna be with her; someone else had to quickly backfill her deployment spot thus impacting their family’s lives; the issue for her and other single mothers is still unresolved. I don’t think there is a simple answer to this complex problem. I’ve been a squadron section commander and handled issues similar to this; it’s not easy for anyone involved.


21 posted on 11/17/2009 6:59:44 AM PST by sassy steel magnolia (USAF life and Navy wife...God Bless the USA!)
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To: sassy steel magnolia

I’ll be happy to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Although I have no problem with women serving in specific areas in the military I don’t think they should ever be in combat units etc.

First- there should be NO uni-sex boot camp- it drags down the men and it coddles the women. There should be separate boot camps. Take out the sexual tension as much as possible and everyone will be more fit as soldiers.


27 posted on 11/17/2009 7:55:05 AM PST by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: sassy steel magnolia

“but I disagree about women serving in the military. Women have valiantly served in the military for quite some time—let’s get beyond this gender war. If a woman can do the job, handle the physical burdens, manage the stress, lead people...get over it, guys. We’re proud to have served with you, why can’t you do the same back to us?”

Totally agree. I’ve been fed up for years with the whining and moaning about women in the military. I guess it never occurs to those guys that some women DESIRE to join the military to serve their country.

Course some of those same “men” think women are only good for one thing.


31 posted on 11/17/2009 10:26:50 AM PST by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: sassy steel magnolia

Those of us who have seen the grim horror at the sharp end of infantry combat (as I did in a Mech Infantry outfit in Vietnam) are concerned at the rhetoric of many of those pushing the women in combat agenda. Daily we are regaled by the sight of 110 lb. women routinely beating the stuffing out of 250 lb male behemoths in choreographed entertainment fantasies like Buffy the vampire Slayer, Dark Angel, Tomb Raider and the Matrix Reloaded. We all listened breathlessly to the initial (later revealed as inaccurate) reports of brave little Jessica Lynch mowing down hordes of Iraqis.

It is only natural that with this continual barrage of opinion shaping that an attitude will begin to form that women are just as generally capable of participating in infantry combat as men are, with a comensurate erosion of the rationale for excluding them in the first place.

This is not to say that women can not serve in positions that enhance military capability, they are already serving in them, and serving well and honorably. It was Nazi Armament Minister Albert Speer who cited the German failure to mobilize their women in the manner that the Allies did in WWII as a significant factor in the Nazi defeat. In situations involving large scale mobilization, they are essential. (Don’t forget that the Soviets only did it because of the hugely staggering quantity of casualties that they suffered, on a scale that we can scarcely concieve of) That is not the case now as most personnel requirements could be met with the available pool of qualified males. Today, the issue is clouded by feminists and their societal influence ranging from lefist cum Marxist to liberal gender equity advocates. All too often combat readinesss, morale and unit cohesion is secondary to remaking the military institution into one which advances a radical social agenda. The decision to incorporate such large numbers of women into today’s military is a political decision, not one of military necessity has was the case with the Soviets during World War II.

One of the problems in assesing the impact of this issue vis-a-vis the Iraq war is the fact that we handily defeated them with the forces that were already in place in the invasion phase. Due to a combination of the skill of our superbly trained, equipped, motivated soldiers; and the ineptitude of our enemy (but they are getting better) our casualty rate has been thankfully far lower than we should have been reasonably able to expect given historical precedents. Notwithstanding this the question must be asked as to what would happen should we face an enemy that could inflict the sort of casualties on us has was the case during the fighting in northwest Europe in WWII? The United States Army was forced to comb out military personnel who had been assigned to the Army Specialized Training program as technical personnel (aircrew, radar operators, etc) and convert them to infantry to replace the staggering losses. Since 14% of the Army is not deployable to such duty (women) this does not bode well for such an eventuality. While we can continue to pray that we will never again face an enemy that will be able to attrite us as the German and Japanese Armies did, we MUST not plan as though it will never again happen. The Iraq and Afghani conflicts as they are presently playing out IS NO TEST OF THIS PROPOSITION.

Many commentators are relentless in their determination to ignore the considerable body of factual evidence indicating that the present policy of sexual intergration is inconsistent with certain vital forms of combat readiness. Study after study (reinforced by my 20 yrs of anecdotal observation in the active duty military and NG) highlight the physical unsuitability of most women for the tasks of the combat soldier, and often even the support soldier. My personal observations include the inability to change the tires on military vehicles, clear routine stoppages on M60 medium MG’s and .50 cal HMG’s, carry heavy loads any appreciable distances at necessary speeds, lift and evacuate casualties, and an inordinate disposition to injury. The reason that the military adopted “dual physical training standards” was to ensure politically acceptable numbers of women, since 40-60% of them would be washed out if they were required to meet male physical training requirements. My son, a reservist in a NG chopper unit, is contemptuous of what he describes as continual coddling of female soldiers. He is planning to transfer to an infantry unit.

In situations of full mobilization, women are essential. I believe that women are a militarily valuable asset, provided that asset is used in a manner that makes the military ready to fight, and subordinates feminist social engineering to that end.

Hundreds of thousands of women have served and are serving their country honorably and well. I honor them for their service and recognize them as comrades and fellow veterans. We can only hope that their service will be continued in such a manner as to enhance the ability of the military to fight. The potential consequences for the individual soldier and the military’s mission are too serious to subordinate to social engineering.


43 posted on 11/20/2009 2:13:46 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: sassy steel magnolia

“been a squadron section commander and handled issues similar to this; it’s not easy for anyone involved.”

It was easy enough in the Reagan Navy. Me brudder, on a LST and a destroyer tender in the 80s, saw his ship/shore rotation go from 3 years/3 years to 5 years/1 year because the Navy’s machine shop women at sea often got as pregnant as possible as quick as possible to get (mandated) shore duty. Pregnancy/child issues are usually easily solved in the military and in the factory where I now work. Answer is, almost always, women with pregnancy/child issues get special allowances, and the rest of you will hafta take up the slack.


44 posted on 01/14/2010 6:08:08 AM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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