NRA: Ban adoption agencies from asking about gun ownership

The Miami Herald ^ | 11.05.09 | MARC CAPUTO

[neverdem]

Herald/Times Tallahassee Bureau

The NRA wants to stop adoption agencies from asking prospective parents about whether they own guns, saying the question is a violation of gun-owners' rights.

The National Rifle Association is pushing legislation to ban adoption agencies from asking potential parents if they have guns and ammunition in the home.

NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer said adoption agencies are violating gun-owners' rights by asking about firearms in an adoption form. She said any request about gun ownership from an agency connected with government was tantamount to establishing a gun registry.

``Gun registration is illegal in Florida,'' Hammer said. ``An adoption agency has no right to subvert the privacy rights of gun owners.''

The issue flared up in Brevard County where a gun-owning couple took umbrage at a request from the Children's Home Society that they disclose if they had firearms before adopting a child.

The couple complained to a lawyer, who called Hammer. She said it would be easier to change the law rather than sue.

A spokeswoman for the Children's Home Society, Liz Bruner, said the agency asks about guns because it is required to by the Department of Children & Families.

``If they don't want us to ask about it, we won't,'' Bruner said. ``We're trying to get an updated form to use, but there's a gray area over what [form] we can use.''

Bruner said that because the state child-welfare system is privatized, Children's Home Society is a subcontractor for a subcontractor and, therefore, communication with the state agency can be challenging.

DCF officials say they are not sure about the form the society is using and plans to make sure that all subcontractors are using the same ones. Some of the newer adoption forms don't ask prospective parents if they own guns.

Sen. Thad Altman, R-Melbourne, said his bill will make it clear that asking about guns is not allowed. He is sponsoring the legislation at the behest of two constituents, whom he would not name for privacy reasons. The one-page bill would make it ``unlawful'' for an adoption agency to ask about gun ownership but does not specify any penalties.

If the gun bill is as successful as others pushed by the NRA in the Republican-led Legislature, it will likely pass.

Some longtime NRA opponents, like Democratic Sen. Nan Rich, said she did not like the idea of banning an agency from simply asking about gun ownership. ``Parents frequently ask if other parents have guns in the home before their kids play there, so why can't an adoption agency just ask?'' Rich said.

Marc Caputo can be reached at mcaputo@MiamiHerald.com

[Red in Blue PA]

Imagine someone asking prospective gay parents if they own gerbils.

Can anyone?

[neverdem]

Marion Hammer is still on the job!

[neverdem]

LOL!

[George from New England]

What I want to know??? Does the background check that foster and adoption agencies do on prospective households, report ownership or CCW licensing?

My wife and I are grandparents that were denied the ability to foster care our own grandchildren. We were shocked at the social worker attitudes toward us and wonder if firearm issues were made available to them from the federal background check. We were told we had a clean history, but did this trigger behind the scenes back stabbing? The written report had no mention of firearms but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t prejudice action being taken.

We have been waiting for more than a year now for an out of state court to give our son and his wife custody back and there seems to be no end.

Maybe we have a lawsuit waiting!

[Dr. Sivana]

Dear George,

My wife and I also left Connecticut a decade ago. I found some true New Haven style pizza in Chicago, so we’re doing okay. Illinois has its problems, but adoption andhome schooling laws are favorable compared to CT.

The home study is where the gun question comes up. That is, I believe, not designed by the adoption agency, but rather by the foster that acts in loco DCFS or equivalent.

The bad attitude from the social worker can come from any number of things. I would assume inertia first, however. If you haven’t gotten a lawyer involved, you might want to consider it. I am no attorney, and there is not enough info to get an idea of what’s going on.

[Graybeard58]

My wife and I were investigated by the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services about 2 years ago, to become legal guardians. In the interview I expected to be asked if we owned guns but not one word was said about guns.

[Still Thinking]

"Parents frequently ask if other parents have guns in the home before their kids play there, so why can't an adoption agency just ask?" Rich said.

Um, because parents are supposed to have beliefs which may even be controversial. A government agency funded by tax dollars may not advocate or work against a particular political view.

[Graybeard58]

My experience with Illinois DCFS in reply #7.

[Dr. Sivana]

We’ve adopted three times, and the gun/firearms question is on the questionnaire. It simply asked if you had guns/firearms in he house. It did not ask for a FOID ID, etc.

[TXnMA]

Answer: "NCND"

The same answer given when someone seeks response to a speculation which would divulge classified information: "I can Neither Confirm Nor Deny that."

~~~~~~~~~

Q: "Do you have guns in your home?"

A: "NCND"

[mvpel]

We began our adoption home study work with Wide Horizons for Children in Massachusetts, which was a well-regarded agency with a great deal of experience with the kind of Russian adoption we were embarking upon.

The form asked about firearms issues, and I answered honestly and frankly that I own and carry firearms, and am a gun rights political activist. I figured since my name had been in the news not too long prior in that respect with an illegal police detention over lawful open carry, it'd come out one way or the other.

They asked if I was a police officer, and asked if I had some reason that they would find acceptable to carry a firearm. The same reason one has a fire extinguisher in the kitchen was apparently not acceptable to them. A desire to have the tools at my disposal defend myself and my then and future family from any possible harm was apparently not acceptable to them.

Suddenly it was nearly impossible to get them on the phone. When we finally did reach them, they seemed afraid to talk to us. The social worker who'd been assigned to do the home study begged off, as if she were afraid that my wife and I would violently attack her the moment she showed up at my home just because we owned firearms.

They made us feel like criminals, like we were unworthy to be parents, just because we owned firearms like tens of millions of other Americans.

We went around in circles with them in letters and rarely, on the phone, for a few weeks - wasted weeks in our effort to get our son home from a Russian orphanage.

Finally we got fed up with Wide Horizons for Children and their seething bigotry and irrational fear, and fired them.

We're still bitter over the hateful scheme they perpetrated against us and the time that they wasted - our time, and the time of our son who spent the first two and a half years of his life in an orphanage rocking himself to sleep.

We went with Adoptive Families for Children in New Hampshire, and got a kind, cute, and friendly New Hampshire native as our social worker, who had gone shooting with her father as a child.

Our son has been home with us for three years this past June.

[Cyclops08]

We know the discrimination inherent in today’s environment.
If someone asks if you have a gun, lie. Say, “No.”

[Non-Sequitur]

``An adoption agency has no right to subvert the privacy rights of gun owners.''

A private agency has the right to ask any questions they want, and you would have a beef only if you can prove that answering 'yes' was a reason to deny the adoption. I had this question 20 years ago when I was going through the adoption process in Illinois. It was phrase in two parts; do we own a gun and if so, where do we keep it? They asked the same question about liquor, prescription medicines, and household cleaners. I took it as a safety issue rather than an anti-gun issue.

[Non-Sequitur]

I found some true New Haven style pizza in Chicago, so we’re doing okay.

Are you sure you hadn't been finding Chicago style pizza in New Haven?

[Dr. Sivana]

Are you sure you hadn't been finding Chicago style pizza in New Haven?

Kansas? Huh? There must be NOTHING but Pizza Hut there. For some reason, ALL of the pizza chains start in places where pizza is not indigenous. (Papa Johns, Shakey's, Godfathers, Boston Pizza, Domino)

[Non-Sequitur]

Kansas? Huh? There must be NOTHING but Pizza Hut there.

Well we've got Uno's here, and that's Chicago deep dish. And Rosatti's, which also serves an edible thin crust. But you're right, it's damned near impossible to get a good pizza in the state. They peddle something called 'St. Louis style pizza' which has a cracker-thin crust that I find almost inedible. I've been here 15 years and I still miss the little hole-in-the-wall pizza shops that dotted Chicago and the suburbs.

For some reason, ALL of the pizza chains start in places where pizza is not indigenous. (Papa Johns, Shakey's, Godfathers, Boston Pizza, Domino)

Well, when you don't have good pizza to begin with then anything will do.

[Dr. Sivana]

In my youth, I was a Pizza Hut cook. On slow nights and days, I would sometimes pull out this special training gizmo that used cartridges with audio and still color photos.

One of these training cartridges was called “The Pizza Hut Story.” Like all of these stories it began with a young man or men (in this case, brothers) who borrowed a modest sum from family to go into business ($600 dollars).

The story continued, “but there was only one problem, they didn’t know how to make pizza.” So I thought this was when they would have that dramatic meeting with an aged Italiano who taught them the secrets, or perhaps months of experimenting would help them find a secret combination of ingredients, maybe they even hired a third partner who had a great recipe. Thge story should have had a dramatic turn at that point, explaining why Pizza Hut went big when others stayed small...

The story continued ...

“So they learned how to make pizza.”

That’s it?! They learned how to make pizza?!

This was the beginning of the commotization of pizza, finished when Tom Monaghan stated that he wwasn’t in the pizza business, but in the pizza delivery business.

[George from New England]

NCND will get the social worker to blow you away with other allegations and crap.

They took my wife and I and built perceptions based on doubt and questions we had at the home study.

Too much power and non-accountability in these state contracted groups. 13 months after our bashing and turn down not a single person has been held accountable. We still cannot help our son and his wife through their plight.