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To: Terry Mross
Must have hit a nerve there. Because my oppinion is different from yours and I say “Kill ‘em all”, simply saying the same thing Stonewall said, you say I’m playing God.

No, not at all. Frankly, as a fellow Christian, I'm concerned about your soul. You apparently believe the sayings of Stonewall Jackson, a man shot and killed by his own trigger-happy troops who shot first and asked questions later, instead of crystal clear quotes from both Jesus and Paul.

I posted three Biblical quotes for you. The first is a parable that ends with a master who had forgiven his servant throwing the servant into prison to be tortured (i.e., damned to Hell despite having previously been forgiven) because he refused to forgive another and Jesus ends it by saying, "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." The second quoted Jesus saying (among other things), "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." The third was from Paul writing in Romans. He says (among other things), "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. [...] Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary: 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.' Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." In other words, if you are unable to forgive, you won't be forgiven and can wind up buying yourself a one-way ticket to Hell. How much more clear does it have to be? And there are more passages that give the exact same message. Have you ever actually payed attention to the words of the Lord's Prayer or looked at the couple of passages after it in the Gospels?

In return, you quote... Stonewall Jackson? I'm sorry but my Bible is missing the Gospel of Stonewall and I don't think Stonewall Jackson is going to be saving anyone's soul.

I don’t see anywhere in the constitution where it says “all men and women have the right to serve in the U.S. military”. So their “rights” would not be violated by refusing to allow them to serve.

The First Amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." So how would you pass a law that prohibits people from serving in the military on the basis of their religion? Further, Article VI reads (in part), "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." What's important to that one can find opinions that military officers qualify as holding an "office or public trust under the United States" which would clearly prohibit the use of religious tests as a requirement for service. So while there is no requirement that everyone has the right to serve, there are prohibitions to applying religious tests and to prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

Which ones of those 1,700 are “sleepers”?

I have no idea. Estimates suggest that between 1% and 4% of the general population are psychopaths. How many of the people all around us are Dennis Raders or Karla Homolka and how willing are you to impose a police state to ferret them out before they hurt anyone? How many militia members are the next Timothy McVeigh and should the government disband all militias just in case? How many anti-abortion protesters are the next Michael Griffin, Paul Hill, John Salvi, Eric Rudolph, James Kopp, or Shelley Shannon and should all anti-abortion protesters be treated like potential murderers? Do you really want to treat people as being guilty of a crime on a statistical possibility and, if so, at what point does the risk justify treating people as guilty without evidence of guilt or due process?

How many American lives are you willing to sacrifice so 1,700 muslims can join the U.S. Army?

How many American lives are you willing to sacrifice so you can drive a car (over 43,000 deaths in 2008), or to allow people to own guns (almost 30,000 in 2004, with more than 64,000 injured), or to allow people the freedom to smoke, or to allow them to enjoy a Big Mac? These are questions nanny-state liberals ask and I will, again, repeat the relevant Ben Franklin quote, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." The point that Franklin was capturing is that liberty is at odds with security and if your answer is that you are not willing to accept that liberty might cost some lives or that Constitutional protections will allow some guilty people to walk free, then you should throw away the Constitution, put on the jackboots, and implement a nanny state to keep you safe. I'm not a libertarian but I'm stunned that there are any conservatives who don't understand this.

I’d rather see a billion muslims dead than one American.

And maybe they'd rather see 300 million Americans dead than one Muslim. That makes you different from them how, exactly?

That’s right. I’m saying I love this country that was founded on Christian principles more than I love people who practice a religion that teaches if you kill a non-believer you’ll go to paradise and get 70 virgins.

For someone who loves this country, you don't seem to have much use for the Constitutional protections put in place by our Founders and for a Christian, you don't seem to have much use for the words of Jesus or Paul so that leads me to believe it's neither the United States nor Christianity that you really love because when I've given you the option of standing for country and Jesus, you've opted to quote Stonewall Jackson, a man who died trying to tear this country apart who was gunned down by his own trigger happy troops who were killing them all so that God could sort them out, instead. Do you think you live in the Confederate States of America or that Stonewall Jackson died for your sins or something?

And that right there shows you how stupid they are. 70 virgins would last no more than a few weeks. Then what?

You seem to be waiting for the Rapture while do exactly what Jesus says will get your forgiveness revoked and earn you a one-way ticket to Hell. How silly is that?

Have a nice life and I hope to see you in Heaven. Seriously. But I’m not so sure you’ll be too happy there. There won’t be any muslims. Maybe you can talk to God and tell Him he’s wrong not to let them in. After all, it’s what He did to them that makes them the way they are. He chose the children of Isaac.

In all seriousness, I hope you make it into Heaven, too, but I think you seriously need to reread Matthew 6:5-15, Matthew 18:21-35 (posted earlier in the thread), Luke 6:27-49, and Romans 12:9-21. You might also want to take a look at The Didache, one of the earliest surviving works describing what the early Church (and possibly the apostles who knew Jesus) thought was required of a good Christian. If you'd like to offer me back passages or early Church writings that support a "Kill them all" attitude toward your enemies, I'll happily take a look at them.

371 posted on 11/07/2009 11:41:13 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions

I started to respond but I almost forgot you’re on my boycott list.

Don’t bother responding because I’m tired of reading about your “love” for animals. You should start a chapter of P.E.T.A.M? That’s PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANGRY MUSLIMS.

And don’t need to worry about my soul making it to heaven. Jesus has that covered. I’ll say hello to Stonewall when I get there?


374 posted on 11/08/2009 9:38:48 AM PST by Terry Mross
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