Posted on 10/13/2009 7:44:45 PM PDT by Palin Republic
“You’re apparently an idiot.”
You are incapable of a rational argument.
Bye.
“Adios, fool!”
“If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us
in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down
and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon
you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams, one of those Sons of Libery you despise
I don't despise the Sons of Liberty, you moron. Only a crazed loon like you would post such a lie.
I find it despicable that you would equate nutbars like Rothbard, Rockwell, DiLorenzo and Ronpaul with the SOL. SOB`s, YES!
“I find it despicable that you would equate nutbars like Rothbard, Rockwell, DiLorenzo and Ronpaul with the SOL. SOB`s, YES!”
I didn’t, but I don’t expect you to realize that in your sputtering rage.
Still with the insults? Is that the best you fedgov fans can do? I guess so.
For your edification. Anyone who attacks Reagan, like Rothbard and Paul, or those who trash Lincoln, like Rockwell and DiLorenzo, should never be compared with the Sons of Liberty. They belong in straight-jacket and medicated to the max!
“Your inference was clear. At post #156 you equate my “POS” remark with the Sons of Liberty.”
I was correct, too. You’d have felt the same way about firebrands like Adams. Exactly the same.
“They belong in straight-jacket and medicated to the max!”
Before Lincoln, we were “these United States”. After Lincoln, we were “the United States”. To ignore that change and what it means is to be a blind worshiper of a legend. This is as clear as day, but you’d rather just shout and insult anyone who questions what you were taught in your Northern public school. History is more complicated than you think.
Sam Adams was a true patriot and a great American.
Ronald Reagan was a true patriot and a great American.
Abe Lincoln was a patriot and a great American.
Rothbard, Dilorenzo, Paul and Rockwell are fringe extremists. Looneytarians!
“Spoken like a good rebel. News Flash: the Civil War has been over for 144 years! Get over it! Grow up!”
Past is prologue.
“Abe Lincoln was a patriot and a great American.”
Yes. He destroyed the Republic and Constitution to save the Union. Great American, that. I think I have a pretty good idea in what opinion Adams would have held Lincoln. You do not maintain a voluntary organization (the Federal government is a CREATION of the States) by force of arms. The 10th Amendment died then. That’s why it’s ignored now. You are just too blinded by Lincoln’s legend to see it. Kind of like those Bush followers who think he was a great conservative President.
“You offered an irrational, dumbass remark more in keeping with fringe lunatics like DiLorenzo.”
It’s not irrational at all. What’s irrational is ignoring the change that occurred in the 1860s. That was the beginning of massive federal expansion. That was the end of the old Republic. That was the point when the states no longer were sovereign.
Here are just a few of the simple (even if uncomfortable to accept) facts about Lincoln’s presidency.
1) President Lincoln waged war against 1/3rd of the American people so that he could preserve a federation of sovereign states together at gunpoint - denying the eleven states of the Confederacy and their people the fundamental right to government by consent. Some guy named Thomas Jefferson wrote about that once... during America’s first war of secession against a destructive far-away centralized government: “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
2) The primary reason Lincoln and the early Republican Party wished to keep the Southern states in the union had NOTHING to do with ending slavery. Lincoln in fact - like many Northerners at the time - actually supported the idea of an amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing slavery forever as a carrot thrown to the South (which they turned down) to avert secession. In truth, the primary reason Lincoln and the 1850s-60s Republican party wanted to “preserve the union” was so that the Northern States could continue to use the majorities in Congress to milk the South for taxes (mainly in the form of tariffs which the South paid the vast majority of despite their much smaller population) and then redistribute their wealth to the Northern states to fund BIG GOVERNMENT LIBERALISM.
3) In the process of waging war against the South Lincoln also waged war against the constitutionally guaranteed liberties of at minimum tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands of Northerners) who disagreed with his policies through actions like unconstitutionally suspending the writ of habeas corpus, shutting down newspapers who disagreed with him and throwing newspapermen who wrote against the war in jail, basically throwing the elected government of Maryland in jail (without out charges or trials) because he feared they might vote for secession too, establishing martial law even in states that remained loyal to the federal government and even though they maintained functioning civilian courts, and ordering the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court arrested because he had the audacity to tell the POTUS he couldn’t do these things and was becoming a dictator.
Even worse than the short-term consequences of Lincoln’s war, however, were the long-term ones, as suggested by Favor Center. The three really big developments in American history - each of them building upon the foundations established by its predecessors - that systemically transformed the United States of America from the federation of sovereign states based upon the principles of government by consent and Creator-endowed inalienable rights into the highly centralized progressive regulatory and welfare state of today (that’s currently sitting at about 30% socialist and getting worse by the moment) were Lincoln’s 1861-65 “Civil War,” the 1901-1917 Progressive Movement (thank you Teddy Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, and Woodrow Wilson), and FDR’s New Deal of the 1930s.
As lastly, just in case anyone wants to falsely charge me as a “racist” or as an apologist for slavery (like they did to Rush Limbaugh), let me reiterate one final point Mr. DiLorenzo and I do agree with: “the ONLY unquestionable good that came out of Lincoln’s war was the unintended consequence of ending slavery a little earlier than it would have ended of its own.”
disclaimer: the above is not an exact quote from DiLorenzo as his books are on a shelf in my office and I’m typing this from my house late at night.
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