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To: mlo
No accusation of bad faith when you seem to be asking an honest question and not repeating the same answered question over and over.

A fact is not a fact until it is confirmed. Having it in your mind or saying it is true does not make it a fact. Showing to other observers who see the same thing makes it a fact. If you say you are 35 that is not a fact until it can be shown in some manner to be factual.

How odd that someone on a web site on which politicans are grilled every day would accept Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean's comments that OB is in fact qualified to be president. In fact, the facts are being questioned, are they not. The facts are known and the proof is out there (apologies to X-Files) but his comments may not be factual. In fact, it is my stronge desire to one day know the actual facts by having recognized authority review his personal records. Until then the facts remain unknown.

777 posted on 10/13/2009 4:48:34 PM PDT by nufsed (Release the passport, school and birth records.)
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To: nufsed
"A fact is not a fact until it is confirmed."

OK, I see we have a fundamental epistemological issue. :-)

"Having it in your mind or saying it is true does not make it a fact. Showing to other observers who see the same thing makes it a fact. If you say you are 35 that is not a fact until it can be shown in some manner to be factual."

It may not be a confirmed fact, but if I really was born 35 years ago then it's a fact I'm 35, whether anyone see the proof or not. It's a fact because it IS, not because someone's confirmed it.

There's a dark side of the moon that nobody had ever seen before we built rockets that could get there. For all of human history no person had ever confirmed anything about the dark side. But it still existed. It was there. It has craters that didn't pop into existence only when someone looked at them. It was a fact of existence, even without a person confirming it.

In the same sense, I am my age whether anyone ever looks at my driver's license. It just is.

790 posted on 10/13/2009 5:12:23 PM PDT by mlo
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