Posted on 10/10/2009 4:18:47 PM PDT by real saxophonist
Dylan Klebold's mom speaks in "O" magazine
"No inkling" of plans for Columbine massacre
By The Denver Post
Posted: 10/10/2009
Susan Klebold wrote an essay in the November issue of O magazine. (Denver Post file photo )An essay by the mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she had "no inkling" of her son's inner turmoil, and her examination of his journals has prompted her to learn about suicide in an effort to understand the school shooting.
The essay by Susan Klebold, which appears in the November issue of O, The Oprah Magazine, explores her son's role in the 1999 massacre where he and co-conspirator Eric Harris killed 12 students and a teacher and left two dozen wounded before killing themselves.
Neither family has spoken at length in the aftermath of what at the time marked the most deadly school shooting in U.S. history. Pending litigation contributed to the silence for several years, but even with the lawsuits resolved, repeated requests for interviews have been turned down.
In a news release, Oprah Winfrey also noted that Susan Klebold had declined interview requests but then, several months ago, agreed to write about her personal experience. The magazine released a few advance excerpts.
"From the writings Dylan left behind, criminal psychologists have concluded that he was depressed and suicidal," Susan Klebold wrote in one passage. "When I first saw copied pages of these writings, they broke my heart. I'd had no inkling of the battle Dylan was waging in his mind."
She added: "Dylan's participation in the massacre was impossible for me to accept until I began to connect it to his own death. Once I saw his journals, it was clear to me that Dylan entered the school with the intention of dying there. And so in order to understand what he might have been thinking, I started to learn all I could about suicide."
Susan Klebold received no payment for the essay, said a magazine spokesperson, but hoped to "raise suicide awareness and to generate support for organizations such as The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the American Association of Suicidology."
A spokesperson for the Klebolds' attorney, Gary Lozow, would not field questions and said that the Klebold family would have no further comment.
The magazine hits newsstands on Tuesday.
In another passage, Susan Klebold recounted the early morning before the violence began:
"Early on April 20, I was getting dressed for work when I heard Dylan bound down the stairs and open the front door. Wondering why he was in such a hurry when he could have slept another 20 minutes, I poked my head out of the bedroom. 'Dyl?' All he said was 'Bye.' The front door slammed, and his car sped down the driveway. His voice had sounded sharp. I figured he was mad because he'd had to get up early to give someone a lift to class. I had no idea that I had just heard his voice for the last time."
Another excerpt describes her struggle to come to grips with the tragedy.
"For the rest of my life, I will be haunted by the horror and anguish Dylan caused," she wrote. "I cannot look at a child in a grocery store or on the street without thinking about how my son's schoolmates spent the last moments of their lives. Dylan changed everything I believed about myself, about God, about family, and about love."
The author of this article wrote a pretty good book about Columbine also. There was a slight liberal tinge, but it was mostly that clueless about real American kind of tinge not the real snarkly I hate America kind. The book had pretty good content, I think it was called Columbine. As a psychologist whose worked within the criminal justice system I have to say it was one of the better ones I have read. It really takes the media to task for their role in spreading lies/myths about Columbine
“Dylan changed everything I believed about myself, about God, about family, and about love.””
There’s an indication right there. NOTHING anyone could do would change anything I believe at this moment in the matters of God, family and love (what ever that last one means).
might want to do your research first, Dylan Klebold was never on antidepressants and Eric Harris (who was probably never depressed by rather a psychopath) had stopped taking his long before Columbine.
I have no trouble feeling a ton of sympathy for her.
My stronger emotion is to get other parents to prevent such stuff.
I’ve heard the stuff from the kids as well . . .
“knowing” his parents loved him vs . . .
bone marrow KNOWING IT??
THERE’S A HUGE DIFFERENCE AND A LOT of points on the continuum.
PEOPLE WHO FEEL TRULY LOVED, CHERISHED, UNDERSTOOD, ACCEPTED DO NOT COMMIT SUICIDE.
Will watch for the book. It’s not a raging priority.
I guarantee you . . . if I read the book, I will be able to find at least 3-5 key areas where they did not convincingly bond emotionally with their sons the first 8 years of the sons lives sufficiently to be the stability etc. loving connection parents are designed to be for their kids.
Those sons HAD REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER it’s plastered all over their history and behavior. The parents’ parts is plastered all over their lives as well.
Appearances and glib statements don’t cover it.
GREAT. A COLLEAGUE WHO’S READ SUCH A BOOK.
IF we consider that 100 would equal the worst REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER/ABUSE YOU’VE EVER DEALT WITH . . .
how would you rate the degree of
RAD that the boys had?
“Cops have no duty to protect any adult or child..”
Cops technically don’t but MEN do, or DID, once, in this country. These males would have been, in terms of the traditional culture, stripped of their Manhood if this had happened 50 years earlier.
I am very familar with Reactive Attachment Disorder and the Columbine crime, there was no indication that Klebold had RAD. Eric Harris maybe, but only from the standpoint that he was a psychopath which tends to have a RAD background, but the history was not all that clear for RAD either.
Who is John Stone?
THANKS.
Maybe I have a . . . hyper definition of RAD.
I know the literature, last I checked, said that 20% of children have it.
Yet, as I watch my students and observe folks in society . . . seems more likely, to me, only 20% don’t have it.
How would you define RAD?
Maybe my definition is extreme.
“I don’t think growthful is a word.”
As far as I know the “Doonesbury” creator Gary Tradeu (SP?) coined that word in a strip making fun of Phil Donahue. I never forgot it for some reason. So ‘on point’ perhaps...
Put another way . . . I could probably count on 1 hand and certainly 2
the number of parents I’ve seen who did parenting right (not perfectly, right) in my 62 years of looking intensely at parents and parenting.
Probably right. I picked it up in my more than 3000 hours of intense group work and experiences.
It was a very common word “in group.”
How closely the trenchcoat mafia[TCM] group of that high school was to satanism is evident from these quotes from the student witness interviews. Though the police and media were careful to keep this fact from the public—
1) TCMer Eric Dutro walking around the school cafeteria telling people that “Satan loves you”(Kelly Beer, 6106) in the spring of ‘98.
2) Courtney van Dell, aka ‘devil girl,’ wore barettes in her hair to make it look like she had horns. Said to be a ‘wikken’(sic) or a devil worshipper(Kristi Mohrbacher(1010), Jessica Lucero(1508 ), Leigh Ann Clark(2723)).
3) The students seeking shelter with Clement Park worker Steve Ogle(1056) told him the perpetrators were TCM and were “satanists”.
4) Jecoa Catt(1364) told IO that the TCM were satanic.
5) Jason Jones(1474) observed the TCM playing ‘magic’ cards in the cafeteria, which were about the devil and about power.
6) Lacey Shotts(1651) said she believed the TCM students were ‘devil worshippers.’
7) Jen Smull saw tcm associate Robert Perry at a halloween party dressed as a worlock(1827).
8 ) Student Perlman(4054) said Joe Stair used to come to woodshop class with a book he called ‘the devil’s bible’.
9) Prior to 4th hour on 4-20, Nicole Ray(4144) saw a male TCMer in the science hall, with his hair fashioned into devil’s horns.
10) TCM associate Nathan Dykeman’s bedroom wall was supposedly covered with devil posters(4630).
11) Nathan Dykeman says Harris called him ‘devil man’.(10710)
12) Daniel Burg(5838 ) told the IO that “...the TCM—they’re like satanists.”
13) TCM leader Chris Morris told Mark Hengel(5899) “I don’t believe in God. I follow Satan’s Commandmants.”
14) Sara Lutes(6821) says the TCM were satanic, and that they wore satanic symbols on their shirts, underneath their trenchcoats.
15) Chris Hooker, 18, said they were “satanic individuals.”
“We’d see them every day. They’ve threatened to kill people ... but nobody thought that was serious,” Hooker said.
16) Library Intern Mary Ziccardi(13647) spent one week at CHS in November of ‘98. Says Eric Harris “looked like the devil” and may have worn black lipstick.
17) Teacher Mr. Long(EP24-17) said he kicked TCM associate Joe Stair out the computer class for accessing satanic sights. This happened last year.(1998)
18 ) TCM associate Eric Ault(10645) told the IOs that “they were into satanic worship.”
19) Jennfer Harmon(8835): “...one of their friends-’Becka’-was waiting for the devil to take over the soul.”
20) Brooks Brown(USAToday.com): “They’re(TCM) all big on anti-God Satanism. They are really just ‘pure hate’.”
21) What kind of music did the TCM like? ‘Devil’ music according to Brandi Wiseman(4751).
22) Trista Fogerty(1420): TCM were satanic, when she first got to CHS friends told her to avoid the group.
23) Nicole Markham(8794): “Harris was into...heavy satanic music.”
24) Nicole Lawson, sophomore(3526): (TCM associates)”Stephanie(Kinny) and Kelly(Schwab) would draw “fnords” on the black board. Fnords are little symbols that were servants of the devil. They would draw a whole bunch of them. They did it when no one was looking.” [’fnord’ is thought to stand for ‘for no other reason, discord’]
25) TCM associate Chuckie Phillips(10866) internet code(Puterfnord@...) name was meant to represent a servant of the devil.
26) Dustin Harrison(6577): “Dustin said (Redacted) ‘scared me to death’ because Dustin had heard that (Redacted) was a member of the “Hells Angels” satanic group and said that this satanic group is into human sacrifices. Dustin said that (Redacted) was very verbal about his desire to kill people.”
I make a pretty firm distinction between attachment disruption/difficulties and RAD. I tend to see RAD as pretty severe attachment disruption related to profound neglect (Eastern European Orphanages, Criminal child neglect, etc) which results in some signifiant behavioral disruptions. Numerically, I would come in much lower than you.
Now, if we were talking attachment disruption/problems (such as Anxious attachment or insecure attachment patterns) maybe 20% would be close. But I always have to justify my diagnosis in court, so I usually am pretty stringent.
Shock? Dead Mom Walking?
We don’t know a damned thing about her so I don’t think anyone needs to judge until they walk in her shoes.
Only my two cents.
That makes sense.
YEAH, I include ATTACHMENT DISRUPTION, INSECURE ATTACHMENT etc. all under RAD.
So, you are saying that you could more closely buy into my 20% don’t have it
IF
we included all the levels of significant ATTACHMENT related problems?
Thanks for your kind responses. I don’t get to discuss such things much any more with colleagues active in the field given that I only teach these days.
yeah I think that would be fair. But I believe that attachment is a pretty underated factor in psychopathology in general.
I noticed when evaluating serial killers and Sexually Violent Predators was that there was a signifant rate of adoption (implying some previous attachment disruptions) or documented histories of profound neglect. Much more so than say physical abuse which is what you would find with most criminals. I wonder some times if we are asking the wrong question sometimes when we go looking for what “caused” someone to become a psychopath. Maybe it was something that didn’t happen, namely attachment. Now obviously this is a profound example (which leads to profound results) but I think normal attachment problems lead to all sorts of pathologys (i.e. insecure attachment leading to anxiety)
I think you are quite right.
Exceedingly right.
Of course . . . I start with the conviction that . . .
TRAIN UP A CHILD IN THE WAY HE SHOULD GO [the natural DNA, BENT, PERSONALITY of that child and in keeping with God’s outline for his life] AND WHEN HE IS OLD, HE WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT.
I have heard profs and even pastors say . . . OH, THE PARENTS WERE WONDERFUL PARENTS, DID EVERYTHING RIGHT—THE KID JUST TWISTED OFF. Not the parent’s fault AT ALL.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT TO BE THE CASE. NEVER. Within 2-5 questions, I could pinpoint where the parents went seriously wrong. And usually, it was in LACK OF SUFFICIENT ATTACHMENT MATCHED TO THAT CHILD’S NEEDS.
RELIGIOUS [vs spiritual] parents are keen to quote SPARE THE ROD AND SPOIL THE CHILD and totally neglect PROVOKE NOT YOUR CHILDREN TO WRATH.
Doesn’t work that way.
DISCIPLINE WITHOUT *SUFFICIENT* RELATIONSHIP WILL ALWAYS *PRODUCE* REBELLION.
And rebellion seeds all manner of internal and external evils, imho.
My 2 cents pontifications anyway.
Have you EVER found a man in the criminal justice system where the FATHER was healthily affectionate, emotionally bonded the first 5 years of life?
What about the first 8 years of life?
Then I think 11-15 is another critical period.
Fathers don’t know how. Are too exhausted. Are too needy to give much . . . etc. etc. etc.
Love these exchanges, Doc. Thanks.
I should get you the link and ask you to listen to him . . . a PhD in engineering or physics or some such . . . brilliant enough that he worked for the ruling oligarchy military scientist types when he was
13 years old on . . . he’s now 70 something.
Anyway—he asserted something a bit startling . . . I wish I had it verbatim . . . in my head, but I don’t.
Something to the effect that
UNLESS A CHILD
1. was put on it’s mother’s breast etc. the first hours after birth . . . it’s brain etc. development would be less than it could have been
and
2. unless the child had both father and mother contributing emotionally . . . and this is the part I have a hard time articulating . . . it was like emotionally plus—plus some spiritual dimension/ some ‘energy’ dimension . . . something—both male and female the first years of the child’s life—affectionately and every other way . . .
THAT THE CHILD WOULD BE OF NO LASTING GOOD TO SOCIETY IT’S WHOLE LIFE.
That was a bit of a global statement. Extremely stark. Thankfully, some of us have proved him at least partly to largely wrong. However, I think there’s something there in what he’s saying.
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