Posted on 09/22/2009 6:58:24 PM PDT by Kaslin
When it comes to Afghanistan, the British have a special perspective: Every mistake the United States has made recently, they made 150 years ago. So it's worth listening to British experts in the debate over Afghan strategy.
Afghanistan drove the British bonkers for much of the 19th century. They couldn't control the place, but they couldn't walk away from it, either. They found that there wasn't a military solution, but there wasn't a non-military solution. It was a question of managing chaos. Sound familiar?
The best answer the British came up with was working with tribal leaders — paying them bribes, wooing them away from the baddies who genuinely threatened British interests, but otherwise letting them run their own affairs.
That was a cynical approach and it left Afghanistan a poor, backward country. But it worked adequately, especially compared with the alternative, which was unending bloodshed in a faraway country that refused to be colonized.
A modern version of this "work with the tribes" approach is still the best answer. And it seems to be an important part of Gen. Stanley McChrystal's strategy that was leaked this week.
It's dressed up in the language of counterinsurgency (COIN) — he speaks of "population-centric" operations, and he uses the word "community" 44 times, by my count. But his assessment is basically a discussion of how to stabilize the country without just shooting people.
(Excerpt) Read more at ibdeditorials.com ...
Sure did. One army they marched into the country had exactly one guy who made it back alive.
Was that Flashman??? Hee hee
The Brits and going back to the Romans were pretty good at utilizing local power structures to their advantage.
And yes, a guns and butter philosophy is certainly called for more often than not in this region of the world. Butter to those that do well by you/us...and guns on those who don't. Pure KISS.
All the while we should be strengthening ties with one (or a few) of the baddest, meanest, knuckle-dragging Pashtuns who want to be the new king of their own small regional kingdom. We give them all the gold and butter they ask for....and they give us the scalps or HUMINT needed to get said scalps of AQ/Tali HVTs.
The problem with Afghanistan is threefold.
1. Widespread corruption
2. It must be changed from a basically tribal country to a more democratic one with its own constitution. In order to help win the war we must win the hearts and minds of the people, show them the way, do like we did in Iraq, help build the infrastructure and maintain it.
3. Increase by many the number of police and security forces of the country and train them so that they will be able to take control eventually from the NATO forces.
Bullsh!t, there is a workable military solution, just not the stomach for it within the US government.
What an utterly asinine article.
I believe it was Flashy.
The Romans and Brits often used client kingdoms and tribal leaders in early stages of their domination but often wound up incorporating them as provinces later.
The eventual British strategy for controlling Afghanistan was really aimed at controlling the border tribes in NW Province, then India, now Pakistan.
It depended heavily on punitive expeditions every few years to remind the tribes who was Boss. These expeditions were by definition not at all PC. The left in America would never stand for them.
A carrot only approach will never work.
I’d love to hear your workable military solution.
Please expand.
Rules of Engagement must be changed to OUR favor! Shoot first and ask questions later!
The survivors will get real reasonable real fast.
We had a "workable" military solution shortly after 9/11, until we started promoting democracy and nation-building in that s--thole.
Yes sir, they proved that in America didn't they... LOL
Bullets can acquire dollars, but dollars can't necessarily acquire bullets.
I have a feeling that the only military solution would involve the example of Deuteronomy 20:16-18.
That’s just a little vague.
Who do you suggest we attack and using what methods? And what leads you to believe your solution will be effective?
IMO, there are only four viable options:
1. The classic counter-insurgency proposed by our generals. I doubt we have the patience to carry this all the way to conclusion.
2. Get out. My preferred solution, but likely to be correctly viewed as a defeat for the US, with all the consequences this is likely to bring.
3. Roman/Mongol methods, killing 5 to 10M Afghans to get across to them they can’t win. Difficult to pull off in a country of this topgraphy, as the Russians found. Also not acceptable politically.
4. Nuke the whole country and kill all the Afghans. Likely to have negative political consequences.
Given the nature of their culture, Nation Building was always an unworkable goal.
A strictly punitive expedition following 9/11 however is something they could culturally grasp.
So, go in, remove the Taliban, take everything made of metal bigger than a shovel and melt it down and ship it out, level all government buildings, every bridge, every dam, burn forested land and crops.. and then vanish back across the sea like ghosts.
I believe a somewhat bloodier version of this was proposed on these forums. Wholesale slaughter would not have been needed - neighboring countries would have done that.
I have also been opposed to defending the Saudis in any way from the Iranians. Help them reclaim their country back if invaded, perhaps. But defend their lives? Not with their track record.
Very odd that you should miss the workable fifth option, given that your screen name begins with “Sherman”.
The author’s claim that the Brits handled the Afghans by simply bribing their leaders is true but incomplete. They also kept a large expensive army on constant guard along the border, with regular punitive expeditions and major wars/invasions every couple decades.
Is this something we want to be doing for the next century?
So what is #5?
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