Germany Shocked by Brutal Commuter Train Murder

Der Spiegel ^ | 15 September 2009 | Jörg Diehl and Annette Langer

[Sam_Damon]

Two youths beat a businessman to death at a Munich train station on Saturday as he tried to defend a group of children. The crime has shocked Germans, and politicians are calling for tighter youth laws and increased video surveillance. Some are threatening to prosecute passersby who do not act to stop such crimes.

[Sam_Damon]

Today's exercise: read this article, then compare and contrast what would happen in a) your own hometown b) New York City c) anywhere where CCW permits are authorized.

Have a nice day!

[rahbert]

what sane person would intervene without a firearm?

[I Buried My Guns]

"youths"?

Hmmm, I sense racism in my next sentence.

[Vigilanteman]

Two Utes? Me heap tired of Utes getting blamed for everything!
Utes are peaceful tribe.
Utes get along fine with white neighbors.

Me bet Utes were named something like Achmed and Mohammed. Not really Utes at all!

[Blueflag]

The ‘yutes’ are only identified as Markus und Sebatian.

[Blueflag]

oops that’s SebaStian

[NativeNewYorker]

Markus and Sebastian...

were the perps' names, according to the article. FWIW.

[piytar]

I live in Dallas. The story here would most likely have a happy ending - two dead punks. But that’s why those things don’t happen here (with rare exceptions).

In NYC? Probably about the same thing as happened in Germany.

[justlurking]

what sane person would intervene without a firearm?

Yeah, I had exactly the same thought. I can't believe they are threatening to criminalize bystanders that don't act, while depriving them of the one tool that is most effective in stopping the perpetrator.

[tx_eggman]

politicians are calling for tighter youth laws and increased video surveillance

... or ... one something of this nature could be brought into play. I'm thinking it would prove significantly more effective than shooting remote videos to be viewed later on youtube.

[Blue Jays]

You are precisely correct and I concur 100%.

[Just another Joe]

One good kick to the side of the kneecap and it becomes a one on one fight.
At that point the other "youth" would have run.

[Menehune56]

what sane person would intervene without a firearm?

I think the answer is a decent person. Unfortunately there apparently weren't enough decent people on the train that day. The apathy on display was no doubt the result of the European nanny states disarming their subjects and prosecuting self-defense.

[Blue Jays]

Exactly.
Besides, how will they prove a bystander actually witnessed events and wasn't busy on a teleconference, tapping email on a BlackBerry, reading the newspaper, or lost in music listening to an iPod at the time?

[bboop]

We live in So Cal. Had a friend visiting from Germany. We went to a local arboretum, and they were filming a movie in one area. I walked up to a woman at the edge of the crowd and asked her what was happening. My German friend, a young woman in her early 20s, said — ‘That would never happen in Germany. We do not talk to people we don’t know!’ She was just amazed, it quite took her by surprise.

What did the article say? “Germans will turn and look away.” I am not surprised to read this.

[nuconvert]

Didn’t sound like the punks had weapons, so why not 5 or 6 guys on the train intervening?

[paddles]

"Speaking to the mass-circulation daily Bild, Rupert Scholz, a Christian Democrat and former defense minister, agreed with Merk, saying that there was an "unspeakable culture of looking the other way" in Germany."

I guess nothing's really changed there since the 1940's.

[thefactor]

ah yes, more laws! that’ll fix this problem.

[IYAS9YAS]

Some are threatening to prosecute passersby who do not act to stop such crimes.

If a wolf attacks your sheep, you don't prosecute the sheep - you kill the wolf.

[fso301]

There used to be an armed civilian group called the Schwartz Sheriffs who patrolled Munich subways. At the time, I remember the subways being very clean and safe.

Times must have changed.