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To: Alamo-Girl
"Man is not the measure of God."

Gen 1:26-27

" Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

God was the blueprint for man. Note that the rational sentient being man is equivalent to God according to this passage, except for having a beginning. There are no other exceptions. That's acknowledged by the words of God Himself: John 10 33-36
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[Psalm 82:6]? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

74 posted on 09/16/2009 2:23:05 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets; betty boop; TXnMA; DallasMike; MHGinTN; metmom; tpanther
A phase change is physical yes. It requires preexistence of a from phase state yes. Now note that the space time you are refering to is a result of the phase change. It didn't exist before that.

Space/time and causality must preexist any phase change. It is not created as the result of it.

A from phase state exists in a space, at the minimum, a mathematical point. And for it to change, time and physical causality must also pre-exist.

Where there is no preexistent phase state including space/time and causality, it is creation ex nihilo - see my post 57.

If the space-time of this world is required for causality, how did God cause creation?

Space, time and physical causality are part of the Creation. They are not properties of the Creator.

Creation is only a subset of reality. Reality includes all that is.

To the contrary, there is nothing of which anything can be made ex nihilo but the will of God.

Objective reality is knowable only to the Creator; only He can see "all that there is" all at once. The rest of us had a beginning, we are creatures, not the Creator.

Emphasis mine:

God was the blueprint for man. Note that the rational sentient being man is equivalent to God according to this passage, except for having a beginning.

Certainly man has a beginning, he is a created being, not the Creator.

God alone had no beginning, He is the Creator. His Name is I AM.

His Name is also Alpha and Omega – there is no thing and no time before Him and there will be no thing and no time after Him.

He is the First Cause and the Final Cause.

And to say the rational sentient being man is equivalent to God is absurd. Man is a created thing, not the Creator. He is the clay, God is the potter.

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? – Isaiah 29:6

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? – Romans 9:20-21

Man is in no way equivalent to God. Nor is man the measure of God.

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[Psalm 82:6]? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

Man can become an adopted child of God not by his own doing, but by being reborn by God Himself. The man that was dies, the new man lives.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:12-13

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. - John 3:5-7

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. – Galatians 2:20

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. – Romans 8:15-17

There is a theology - LDS - which believes in premortal existence. In that belief, the father and son are separate "gods." And "god" is "a" creator and is himself a created being, the spiritual offspring of prior father 'gods' in an endless chain of prior existence. And man himself can become "a" god. In that belief, "god" is only human - advanced, but human nonetheless.

But that is not Judeo/Christian belief. The hallmark of Judeo/Christian belief is the Name of God. And so we pray "hallowed be thy Name!"

And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God. – Deut 12:3-4

The Name of God is so sacred in Jewish belief, the term "Hashem" which means the Name is often used instead. And likewise, Jews often type "G_d" so they do not accidentally erase His Name.

Truth is in God's Name: I AM. He is not "a" creator, but "the" Creator.

And He is not a hypothesis. I've known Him for a half century and counting.

Again, I aver that…

Man is not the measure of God.

93 posted on 09/16/2009 9:02:03 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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