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To: AussieJoe
That question implies that the system had to have been created by a ‘who’, but there’s nothing to prove that it had to have been a ‘who’.

Everything we know about randomness shows clearly that it does not lead to increased order. Intelligence begets systems, randomness does not.

36 posted on 09/16/2009 7:29:20 AM PDT by TChris (There is no freedom without the possibility of failure.)
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To: TChris; AussieJoe
Everything we know about randomness shows clearly that it does not lead to increased order. Intelligence begets systems, randomness does not.

When we know the cause of ordered systems, we know that there is intelligence behind it.

For ordered systems where we don't know the cause, the best we can say is that we don't know the cause.

There is a lot of thinking that indicates that if we don't know the cause, it's presumed that there is none, or at least no intelligent cause. But that is merely an assumption and should never be stated as a fact.

So basically, precedent indicates that ordered systems for where someone might say that they don't know the cause, the logical assumption came be made that it is intelligent, as opposed to having none.

Presuming no intelligent cause for an ordered system takes faith as there is no precedent for it.

39 posted on 09/16/2009 7:47:35 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: TChris
"Everything we know about randomness shows clearly that it does not lead to increased order. Intelligence begets systems, randomness does not. "

Randomness is not one of the forces of nature that results in bonding, or other associations. Intelligence relies on some machinery, or system, which of necessity can not have been generated by that which the machinery gives rise to.

46 posted on 09/16/2009 9:05:19 AM PDT by spunkets
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