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To: betty boop; spunkets
Thank you oh so very much for these additional insights, dearest sister in Christ, and thank you for your encouragements!

Final cause — the cause which entails the other three causes (i.e., which effects causal closure, so that efficient cause is constrained to within the system); the limit, purpose, or functional goal that seems to act "from the future" (e.g., Alex Williams' inversely-causal metainformation).

Very well said!

Aristotle: For the final cause is (a) some being for whose good an action is done, and (b) something at which the action aims; and of these the latter exists among unchangeable entities though the former does not. The final cause, then, produces motion as being loved, but all other things move by being moved.

Fascinating insight in that excerpt!

Autonomy is key to "life itself" in Rosen's mathematical model for relational biology. As he says "a material system is an organism if, and only if, it is closed to efficient causation."

Likewise, autonomy is relevant in defining life v non-life/death in nature using Shannon's mathematical model of communications. Which is to say, when a thing in nature is autonomously communicating its message (DNA/RNA) it is alive. When it can no longer communicate, it is dead. If it never could communicate, it is non-life.

Moreover, Scripture confirms biological autonomy (emphasis mine:)

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. - Genesis 1:20

As we briefly discussed on another thread, the link between water and the message being communicated is the hydrogen bond which gives DNA its double helix geometry.

In contrast to biological life which is autonomous ("hath life") - our Spiritual life is non-autonomous.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. - Colossians 3:3

The Spiritual message which enlivens us - the words of God - are not altogether physically manifest like DNA. The people Jesus is addressing below were physically hearing Him but they could not spiritually hear Him. They did not have "ears to hear" but we do.

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Corinthians 2:14

And that difference comports with Aristotle's insight to the Cosmic level and the Immanent Level.

And another confirmation from Scripture:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. - John 3:5-7

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19

God's Name is I AM.

138 posted on 11/13/2009 10:19:25 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: TXnMA
Hi there, dear brother in Christ!

You might also be interested in my post 138.

139 posted on 11/13/2009 10:25:38 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; spunkets
The Spiritual message which enlivens us - the words of God - are not altogether physically manifest like DNA.

Not altogether — depending on the "ears"....

But neither is DNA "altogether physically manifest." There is a sense in which DNA is not physical at all, its sense as an idea — and a pretty darn useful one, as it turns out. The point is, the term DNA refers both to "code" and the physical carrier of the code (i.e., the DNA molecule). Yet typically we do not draw this distinction. Anyhoot, you can "fractionate," or "reduce" a molecule all day long; but you cannot "fractionate" an idea.

The Word cannot be fractionated.

Your points about autonomy/non-autonomy and the vital importance of communication in living systems are so well stated, dearest sister in Christ!

...when a thing in nature is autonomously communicating its message (DNA/RNA) it is alive. When it can no longer communicate, it is dead. If it never could communicate, it is non-life.

Seems like an excellent "rule of thumb" to me!

Thank you ever so much for your wonderful essay/post, dearest sister in Christ, and for your very kind words of support!

140 posted on 11/14/2009 8:42:45 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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