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Mercury’s Magnetic Field is Young!
CMI ^ | Russell Humphreys, Ph.D.

Posted on 09/04/2009 8:50:36 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

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To: GodGunsGuts
Intelligent Design is an inference from nature that does not allow itself to be informed or guided by theology or the Bible

I'd like to see one IDer in this country who doesn't think the designer is the Christian God. ID, and all of the ICR's work, starts with a pre-defined conclusion: God did it. In the ICR, all work must be done towards proving the world is only 6,000 years old. That is not science.

The idea of an old Earth and of natural selection came about gradually based only on the evidence, and in the face of persecution from the religious powers who considered such results to be heresy. That is science.

481 posted on 09/05/2009 4:13:02 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
You are the one who is whining that I'm being to hard on your obnoxious evo coreligionists. Of course, my first preference is that these threads remain civil, but if your fellow Darwin-drones want to continue with their rude, demeaning comments, I would be lying if I said I do not relish pointing out that it is actually the Temple of Darwin that is guilty of virtually everything that they accuse the Creationists and IDers of being guilty of.
482 posted on 09/05/2009 4:13:23 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: antiRepublicrat
ID, and all of the ICR's work, starts with a pre-defined conclusion: God did it.

And this is inferior to the a priori "God didn't do it," just how?

483 posted on 09/05/2009 4:15:51 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: antiRepublicrat

How about Dave Scott, Antony Flew, Jonathan Wells, David Klinghoffer...and the list goes on and on and on and on.


484 posted on 09/05/2009 4:16:45 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

That is because those questions you asked me are a matter of faith and fall outside of the realm of science.

Anyone who claims otherwise lacks a basic understanding of science.


485 posted on 09/05/2009 4:17:50 PM PDT by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I hadn’t really thought about the concept of the Devil being the great Deceiver.

He's a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus speaking ......

John 8:43-45 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

486 posted on 09/05/2009 4:29:14 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

Ping me when you get an answer. I’d love to see that one.


487 posted on 09/05/2009 4:35:06 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Ira_Louvin
No, they are not outside the realm of science. If Jesus was born of a virgin, this is both a miracle and an empirical fact. If Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead, then this is both a miracle and an empirical fact. If Jesus created and holds the Universe together by the power of his word, this are both a miracle and an empirical fact. If Jesus died, and then rose from the dead three days later, this is both a miracle and an empirical fact. If Moses parted the Red Sea, this is both a miracle and an empirical fact. If God destroyed the world with a flood, this is both a miracle and an empirical fact. If God created every original kind fully formed and fully functional, then this is both a miracle and an empirical fact.
488 posted on 09/05/2009 4:36:48 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Why would I ask him when I have no reason to believe he is being paid, and asking would suggest there was some evidence?

Perhaps you are afraid of the answer. You are new to these threads so you are excused for not knowing.

489 posted on 09/05/2009 4:40:17 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: antiRepublicrat; RegulatorCountry
ID, and all of the ICR's work, starts with a pre-defined conclusion: God did it.

The ToE and all of science's work starts with the pre-defined conclusion: __________ (fill in the blank) did it.

And I'd also like to know how *God did it* is any different than nature (or whatever you want to fill in the blank with) did it.

490 posted on 09/05/2009 4:41:36 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ColdWater; CharlesWayneCT
Perhaps you are afraid of the answer. You are new to these threads so you are excused for not knowing.

Your noob is showing....

491 posted on 09/05/2009 4:42:38 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

I’m expecting something more akin to moving the goalposts, to be honest. I didn’t get a lucid response from the poster who claimed an evolutionary timeline was compatible with the days of Creation, upthread, either.


492 posted on 09/05/2009 4:47:43 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: GodGunsGuts

So how would you disprove those “empirical facts” ?


493 posted on 09/05/2009 4:54:28 PM PDT by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Cold Water is one of many unscrupulous liars for Darwin on FR. Enough said.


494 posted on 09/05/2009 4:55:35 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Ira_Louvin

How could they be disproven, Ira? You said that you already believe they really happened on faith. If you believe they really happened, then you accept the infallible history of God’s Word over biased evo-atheist historical reconstructions based on scientific sounding guesswork.


495 posted on 09/05/2009 4:59:41 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: RegulatorCountry
And this is inferior to the a priori "God didn't do it," just how?

Science doesn't say "God didn't do it." Most scientists are religious, even Darwin was religious when he developed his theory. Those scientists are trying to discover God's creation.

The only thing science rules out is miracles because it is based on evidence, and miracles require no evidence. Plus, science has its limits. It can only discover what is within the system, or it wouldn't make any sense. A designer doesn't fit because a designer is outside of the system. It's like a mouse locked in a box in a lab theorizing about the CEO of the company. There is no evidence of the CEO or of his nature, so anything in that area must be on faith, not science.

It's fine if you want to believe there is a designer. There's nothing wrong with that, and science would be going outside of its area to try to disprove that. What's wrong is equating that belief with science.

496 posted on 09/05/2009 5:00:06 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: metmom

Read my last to RC.


497 posted on 09/05/2009 5:03:17 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat; RegulatorCountry

Actually, you are quite mistaken. If miracles occur in nature, then they are both miraculous and empirical fact. As such, if miracles occur on a grand scale, such as creation week, or a worldwide flood, they will leave their mark on nature, and thus can be investigated by science. In the same way, if a history book of the future were to tell us that mankind almost perished in an all out nuclear war, if true said nuclear war will have left its mark in the real world, even if we were not there to observe it.


498 posted on 09/05/2009 5:08:07 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I never said that I accepted a literal translation of the bible.

They are accepted on faith because they are not supported by empirical evidence. That is why it is called “faith”

Now we can agree to disagree on this matter, however I do believe that you owe me an apology for your earlier inappropriate posting.

As a Christian I have already forgiven you for your transgression.


499 posted on 09/05/2009 5:10:22 PM PDT by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
You are the one who is whining that I'm being to hard on your obnoxious evo coreligionists.

You were talking about how civil you are. I just showed that you can get quite nasty yourself.

Of course, my first preference is that these threads remain civil ... your fellow Darwin-drones

There you go again. I try to stay civil on these, but this is a fine example of how I get personally attacked by a Christian first. So far in this thread I have attacked ID, I have attacked the ICR, I have attacked the articles, but I have not personally attacked a FReeper. I even tried to diffuse some incivility. I haven't called names, definitely not you.

Yet here you are, drawing first blood calling me a "Darwin drone." Like I said, it's always the creationists who get nasty with me first. So set me straight, is that a very Christian thing to do?

500 posted on 09/05/2009 5:16:44 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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