There is a limit to the spirit of sacrifice of the mothers of the red state boys.You put it very well. So we ask, can technology substitute for American lives, for boots on the ground? Can we get the job done with American air power and Afghan national forces? Can the drones in support of the Afghans do it?

The problem with relying on the Afghans is we expect them to behave as 21st-century men when they are closer to Hunter gatherers or nomads who have recently been provided AK-47s. Much like early American Indians were given flintlocks and firewater. They are not patriots, they are tribal. They are not democrats, they are Muslims. Think of the American Indians who made treaty with the white man against other Indian tribes and why they did so-because they did not entertain a vision which said this is how the world works which, unfortunately for them, the white man held and imposed through his technological superiority. The Indians had no idea of property in the Anglo-Saxon sense, and neither do the Afghans have an idea of nationalism in the 21st century sense. So we can provide the drones and the helicopters and the rockets, but can the Afghans provide the boots on the ground in furtherance of American interests?

Well stated as usual, nathan. We expend alot of resources in Afghanistan exercising nation building where no government, in the western civilization economic and democratic sense of the word, has ever taken hold and endured. If making Afghanistan into our own image or some other democratic facsimile is our goal there, we had better be ready to commit to a long, long stay with ample forces and resources to turn multiple generations of Afghans heads around.

I don't see that scenario as a realistic option. Americans simply don't have the patience for it. Our politicians certainly don't display the political will to commit to victory and the Afghanis, after 5+ years of relative freedom from their Taliban tormentors, have already indicated that they are not that enthused with moving beyond a tribal form of governing and lifestyle.

Besides, Afghanistan isn't the center of gravity for defeating the Taliban and al Qaeda in any case. That distinction belongs to Pakistan. Afghanistan is merely the age old tromping grounds. What's the end state to all this? We may as well be doing back to back combined arms live fire exercises at NTC the way the situation exists now.

As poor a description the "War on Terror" moniker was from the Bush administration, the Obama administration won't even characterize this war as such. It's merely a contingency operation now. That's non-committal coward's talk that leaves our troops in a dangerous lurch. The contingency was planned well before 9-11. We are now executing a war plan. Let's either close with the enemy in his own camp or get the hell out until we, as a nation, decide whether fighting and dying for our own liberty on foreign ground (ala war with hostile islamic states and their proxies intent on subduing or killing us) is worth the cost in blood and treasure.

I suspect you are correct that Afghans will never have any sense of national "allegiance" but as a tribal, corrupt country there will probably be enough that can be bought to do just enough to stay in power. Intellectually very unappealing result but probably the best attainable. As I stated, allowing the Taliban and Al Queda access to the priveledge of a recognized "nation" isn't an option.

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