[secretagent]

"...society that substitutes State coercive restraint for voluntary individual self-restraint."

Unfortunately that's about the only option left for those interested in preserving their society - and all it accomplishes is to postpone the downfall for a short time, at the expense of liberty lost in the process.

As you say, at the expense of liberty.

Also, the surrender of liberty itself atrophies the moral muscles needed for self restraint.

[LearsFool]

Also, the surrender of liberty itself atrophies the moral muscles needed for self restraint.

Well said. The effect builds upon itself, and our nation accelerates toward its downfall.

As John Adams said: "This Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is inadequate for the governing of any other."

I would argue that the only government adequate for governing an immoral and irreligious people is a powerful tyrant. (Oh wait, isn't that what we have in America?)