Electric car sticker shock awaits U.S. consumers (Government Motors is a farce)

Reuters ^ | August 16, 2009

[Zakeet]

As American consumers abandon gas-guzzling SUVs for greener alternatives, they also face a new kind of sticker shock -- confusing claims about the energy efficiency of electric cars heading for showrooms.

Federal fuel economy standards and household budgets have been built around relatively simple measurements of how many miles vehicles can travel per gallon of gasoline, a number that features on a sticker displayed in the windows of new cars in U.S. showrooms.

So what should those stickers show for new battery-powered cars that will draw most or all of their power from the country's electricity grid?

General Motors Co GM.UL brought urgent new attention to the issue last week when it said its upcoming Chevy Volt would get an unprecedented 230 miles per gallon in city driving.

But critics jumped on GM's claim for the Volt as an example of brash marketing and fuzzy math.

Even electric car boosters concede there is room for confusion.

"The sticker problem has not been solved yet," said Felix Kramer, head of California-based CalCars.org, a nonprofit advocacy group for plug-in electric vehicles.

[Snip]

The automaker emerged from its fast-track bankruptcy in July under the majority ownership of the U.S. Treasury. Although the Volt is expected to lose money for GM, it remains the centerpiece of the automaker's effort to reinvent itself for skeptical U.S. consumers.

[Hotdog]

Volt $40,000

My Used Caravan (1 year old with 16,000 miles) $14,000

Price Difference of $26,000

Volt 230 MPG

My Caravan 20 MPG

Gasoline currently @ $2.50

$26,000 (price difference) / $2.50 = 10,400 Gallons of gas

20 MPG x 10,400 = 208,000 miles I would have to travel before I would break even between a vehicle that claims 230MPG and mine that gets 20MPG…This doesn’t include the cost of charging the Volt nor the cost of replacing the batteries. Did I miss something?

[kempo]

I wonder how much money will tax payers will lose on this adventure?

[papasmurf]

Although the Volt is expected to lose money for GM...

The 0bama administration expects to make it up in volume...

[digger48]

With that said, I would still rather keep my gas guzzling 1974 Dodge Power Wagon 440.

I was 17 in 1974 when a farmer I worked for bought one of those. We put it through pure hell. We put a lot of u-joints in it.

Took every bit of a 10 acre field to turn it around, and shoulda been called a Dodge Log Wagon for the ride, but one tough SOB.

[umgud]

No doubt public charging stations will accept ATM cards.

[glowworm]

“20 MPG x 10,400 = 208,000 miles I would have to travel before I would break even between a vehicle that claims 230MPG and mine that gets 20MPG…This doesn’t include the cost of charging the Volt nor the cost of replacing the batteries. Did I miss something?”

Not much.. but my Caravan also holds 7 passengers and a whole buncha “stuf”.. and the air conditioning is a definate plus on hotish days.. Nice to hook up a U-Haul behind when you need more stuf to go..

Also efficient lightweight batteries have a definite short life and major restrictions on deep discharges.. I wonder how much of the $40,000 is battery/replace cost? I bet replacement is a bear compared to the OEM cost...

[Steven Tyler]

Yeah but-
If the battery cost $12,000 and has a 100,000 mile lifespan, that is a running cost of 12 cents per mile.
I believe gasoline is cheaper

[papasmurf]

DOE Reports That Lithium-ion Batteries Are Not Ready for Prime Time

# Cost – The current cost of Li-based batteries is approximately a factor of two too high on a kW basis. The main cost drivers being addressed are the high cost of raw materials and materials processing, the cost of cell and module packaging, and manufacturing costs.
# Performance – The barriers related to battery performance include a loss in discharge power at low temperatures and power fade over time and/or when cycled.
# Abuse Tolerance – Many high-power batteries are not intrinsically tolerant to abusive conditions such as short circuits (including internal short circuits), overcharge, over-discharge, crush, or exposure to fire and/or other high-temperature environment.
# ...Li-ion batteries have insurmountable cost, performance, abuse tolerance and cycle life problems that must be overcome before they become viable products.

Recycling costs for Lithium-Ion batteries upwards of $3000.00 a ton, or based on content, (US) $1850.00. Of course, the Government plans on subsidizing it for a while.

[dalereed]

The liberal pukes that want to drive electric cars should be charged at least $100,000 to buy a one seat one and $250,000 for one that seats two!!!

[Puddleglum]

well, the next thing in the green socialist revolution will be rickshaws for the ruling class, pulled by us underlings:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/PopularScience/12-1940/bike_taxi.jpg

[dalereed]

“We learned it was “Fix or Repair Daily.”

Until 1954 it was first on race day!

Held the D roadster record in SCTA until the last day at Bonneville in 1954 when Voight and Colb showed up with their De Soto in a 32 and went 176!

[calex59]

I believe they got 230 mpg simply by following the EPA mileage guidelines. I don't know the guidelines, but I presume cars do not have to travel very far for the test, and I doubt that there's any provision to convert plug-in recharging to gasoline mpg equivalent.

They drove the car(from an article posted the other day, sorry no link)the 40 miles the battery affords and then the gas engine fired up and they drove it another 10 miles. 50 miles total. This is how they estimated the mileage and without figuring in the electricity cost.

Now we have Toyota(I think it is Toyota)claiming 370 MPH for their new car.

[Jeff Chandler]

We should have one universal unit of energy consumption for all types of vehicles.

I suggest we call it the “Obama Power Index”.

I haven’t made up my mind yet whether the short version should be “Opies” or “Obamas”.

“This car gets 43 Obamas on the highway.”

[Uncle Ike]

” rickshaws for the ruling class, pulled by us underlings: “

Green jobs??

[jveritas]

Although the Volt is expected to lose money for GM, it remains the centerpiece of the automaker's effort to reinvent itself for skeptical U.S. consumers.

WOW... Great business model every company should follow it (extreme sarcasm).

[Zakeet]

We should have one universal unit of energy consumption for all types of vehicles. ... I suggest we call it the “Obama Power Index”. ... I haven’t made up my mind yet whether the short version should be “Opies” or “Obamas”. ... “This car gets 43 Obamas on the highway.”

Sorry, but the names are already taken for highway usage.

As you drive down the highway, you will occasionally come to a rest stop.

An "Obama" is one of two things you typically do there.

An "O-Pee" is the other.

[calex59]

We should have one universal unit of energy consumption for all types of vehicles. I suggest we call it the “Obama Power Index”. I haven’t made up my mind yet whether the short version should be “Opies” or “Obamas”. “This car gets 43 Obamas on the highway.”

Yeah, but your talking about a car that runs on pure BS aren't you?

[Gritty]

Although the Volt is expected to lose money for GM the American taxpayer, it remains the centerpiece....

There. I fixed it.

Why should "GM" care? They're not a genuine corporation any more. They're owned by the UAW now and all they need to do is continue on the government teat by obeying the car czar and produce cars nobody wants?... Oh, and collect their union dues at the same time!

[SnuffaBolshevik]

HA!! Until an electric car can tow my 4 horse trailer I think I’ll keep my “gas guzzler."

And don't get rid of the horses, either.

They're looking better all of the time.

[bill1952]

Does everyone here know what is going to happen to the price of electricity??