“Your definitions of libertarian and Christian are quite narrow and exclusionary.”
You say that as though Our Lord did not say, “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!”
“I’ll give you that most libertarians believe that the state should stay out of the bedroom”
No, actually, that’s not true. Not that they don’t want to keep “the state” out of the bedroom; they just never stop there.
That “bedroom” crap is a smokescreen. They *claim* to be worried about “the state in the bedroom,” but after decades of that smokescreen we find that they demand complete legalization and enthusiastic endorsement of whatever vice they practice. Many, and especially libtards, laughed at those who foresaw indoctrination of elementary school students by sodomites, but that’s right where we are now. The question is not whether some boogeyman is going to crash into your bedroom; the question is whether you want to live in a society that celebrates vice, or one that deplores it.
“and the medicine cabinet”
Ditto here. Holland’s experiment with the legalization of marijuana is not working out well, you know. WRT narcotics, there are many elements in addiction. One of those is opportunity. The more people who have the opportunity to become addicted, the more will actually become addicted.
“but to suggest that unless one favors such government intrusion one is not Christian is absurd.”
That is *so* dishonest. You’ve created a false dichotomy: complete legalization or nightmare state with government agents “in the bedroom.”
That is not the choice that faces us.
If you don’t deplore and reject those things that the Christian faith says should be deplored, then you are not practicing the Christian faith. If you do not want to save both yourself and your neighbor from the glamour of evil, then you are not practicing the Christian faith. If you do not think it is best to live in a society that institutionalizes its rejection of those things, then you do not understand and accept the Christian faith.
And none of that requires bedroom police that listen at every keyhole. As Thomas Jefferson said, “When (the moral sense) is wanting, we endeavor to supply the defect by education (and religion). These correctives supplied by the moralist, the preacher and legislator lead into a course of correction of those whose depravity is not too profound to be eradicated.”
You can’t just pick and choose those elements of Christianity that appeal to you. It’s a seamless garment; an all-or-nothing package. And a libertarian who does not seek to protect the legal status of vice (as defined by the Christian faith) is not a libertarian, but a conservative.
FRiend,
I highlighted the above passage from your last post because I believe that it leads us to the crux of the matter. In your version of Christianity, I must accept A, B and C in order to be worthy of being considered D (Christian). But there is evidently no room for me at the inn, since while I wholeheartedly accept A and B, I have a somewhat different perspective on C.
It's interesting that you use the word "institutionalize". Such a mellow word to describe the damage that the state does when prosecuting vice. I have some perspective on this as I was once a participant in the "drug war".
As a young man, some forty or so years ago, I was arrested for possession of marijuana. I was found guilty (I was guilty) and at the tender age of nineteen I had a criminal record. That record has damaged my career. I have been passed over for at least one job because of it. I have also been denied a promotion because of it. I made a stupid mistake, no question, but the conviction by the state hurt me worse than any drugs ever did.
But, you might be thinking, the arrest surely taught me my lesson, right? It surely kept me from moving to harder drugs. Hardly. It pushed me further into the life. It hardened my "us versus them" mentality. Fortunately, my dear wife arrived on the scene shortly after this incident and straightened me out. Without using coercion too, I might add.
Sometimes, the drug war fallout is even more serious than my experience. Take, for example, a recent occurrence in my home town. A young man was selling marijuana from his home. He was reported to the police. Late one night the SWAT team came to his house. According to reports (and believed by the jury) he heard them pounding on his door and thought he was being robbed. He fired a pistol at the door. A young policeman was hit, and killed. The policeman left behind a young family. The young man who fired the gun is now spending his life in jail. Two lives are gone, and two families have been irreparably damaged. And all over a small amount of an intoxicating weed that people ingest voluntarily.
Now I would not deny that misusing drugs does damage, and that undoubtedly other lives have been helped by the "institutionalized" rejection of this vice. And I would not condemn someone with the perspective that the drug war is an overall positive state program. I certainly would not condemn such a view as non Christian, just mistaken.
But this is where you and I differ. Whereas I would suggest that two Christians could have different perspectives on this matter of the drug war - whether it should be continued or dropped - you, on the other hand, condemn me for my perspective, going so far as to question my belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. In your mind it is evidently not possible that I am simply mistaken. I am simply not a Christian.
I will leave you with one final thought, my FRiend. I direct your attention to my tag line. This wonderful quote from one of our founding fathers can be interpreted in (at least) two ways. The first, and most obvious interpretation is that we humans, born ignorant, become more the wise the more we displace our ignorance with facts.
The second interpretation, and what I believe Benjamin Franklin to have been thinking when he penned this, is that it is the very realization of our own natural state of ignorance that leads us to wisdom. For it is this realization that causes us to continually question our "facts". I use this quote as my tag line as a constant reminder to myself that no matter how sure I am of my position, I do need to approach every problem with what the Zen masters call "beginner's mind". The possibility that my facts may simply be wrong.
God only knows whether you are correct, that A, B and C are required in order to be considered D. God only knows. You don't. Consider that you just might be wrong. That's what a Christian would do.