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To: so_real

“after the 14th Amendment was ratified ... naturalized-by-birth”

No. The 14th amendment says all persons born OR naturalized in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. The “or” means born citizens and naturalized citizens aren’t one and the same. To be born a citizen is not to be “made natural,” but rather to be natural.


16 posted on 08/04/2009 1:26:27 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

The “or” means born citizens and naturalized citizens aren’t one and the same.

Certainly. And in the historical context, prior to the 14th Amendment, they most definitely were not the same. Simply being "born" in the U.S. was no guarantee whatsoever at all that a child of a foreign national would even be considered a citizen. They most decidedly would not in any remote circumstance have been considered "natural born citizens". Naturalized citizens had the distinct advantage. Senator Jacob M. Howard said as much when he introduced the 14th Amendment to the Senate in 1866 with a speech saying :

"This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States."

According to Jacob's understanding of the text at the time it was conceived, agreed upon, and presented, it is quite possible to be a person born in the United States and yet still be a foreigner or alien and therefore, not a citizen at all. It is quite a stretch to believe the 14th proffered the "natural born" status to these non-citizens in the minds of its authors and contemporaries. Not to be offensive, but in the historical context that would have been ludicrous. I'm not sure it would even be Constitutionally possible as Congress was only granted the authority in Article I to define uniform laws of naturalization. I'm reasonably certain Congress was not extended the authority anywhere to redefine the understood notion of "natural born".


35 posted on 08/04/2009 2:37:34 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Tublecane

“The 14th amendment says all persons born OR naturalized in the U.S. are U.S. citizens.”

You left out subject to jurisdiction.


54 posted on 04/28/2011 1:59:45 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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