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To: savedbygrace
I guess I need to explain my answer, then.

I will repeat my answer for the third time: "Are you trying to argue that because the Court 'only' ruled that Wong Kim Ark was '...at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States,' they had nothing to say about 'natural-born' citizenship? That's a disingenuous argument, at best." (emphasis added)

Why do you think I used the word only and placed quotation marks around it? Why did I quote a passage from Wong Kim Ark that only stated "...citizen of the United States"? That was my answer to your question; you simply did not catch it. The Court addressed a question of citizenship. In the process of addressing that question, they clarified the meaning of "natural-born," which is not defined the Constitution, as noted by Chief Justice Waite and plainly obvious to anyone literate in English.

That is why your question is poorly posed. You're attempting to argue that because Wong Kim Ark was not specifically about "natural-born" citizenship, it has nothing to do with the issue of what "natural-born" means. Now, it is you who has not answered one of my previous questions: if that truly were the case, then why did Justice Gray expend so much effort analyzing English common law to clarify the meaning of "natural-born"? If the phrase were irrelevant, then he shouldn't have felt compelled to address it. The take-home point is that Wong Kim Ark, like Minor before it, contains a clarification on the meaning of "natural-born," and while you are free to dismiss it, you cannot ignore that it exists.

Now, if you please, provide a definition on "natural-born," preferably one supported by SCOTUS jurisprudence.

1,182 posted on 08/08/2009 3:59:21 PM PDT by Abd al-Rahiim
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To: Abd al-Rahiim
You seem so sure of yourself. Did you also read this part of the majority's opinion in Wong Kim Ark?

That neither Mr. Justice Miller, nor any of the justices who took part in the decision of the Slaughter House Cases, understood the court to be committed to the view that all children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of foreign states were excluded from the operation of the first sentence of the fourteenth amendment, is manifest from a unanimous judgment of the court, delivered but two years later, while all those judges but Chief Justice Chase were still on the bench, in which Chief Justice Waite said: 'Allegiance and protection are, in this connection (that is, in relation to citizenship) reciprocal obligations. The one is a compensation for the other; allegiance for protection, and protection for allegiance.' 'At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country, of [169 U.S. 649, 680] parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further, and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction, without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction, are themselves citizens.' Minor v. Happersett (1874) 21 Wall. 162, 166-168. The decision in that case was that a woman born of citizen parents within the United States was a citizen of the United States, although not entitled to vote, the right to the elective franchise not being essential to citizenship.

Still think Justice GRAY 'clarified' the definition of 'natural-born citizen'? In that quote, he is quoting Justice Waite's opinion that those born of two citizens become natural-born citizens at birth.

Interpreting USSC opinions isn't as simple as you thought it was, huh?

BTW, the answer to my question, the question you've been trying to avoid answering, was written by Justice Gray:

The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who at the time of his birth are subjects of the emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution: 'All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.'

1,183 posted on 08/08/2009 6:51:39 PM PDT by savedbygrace (You are only leading if someone follows. Otherwise, you just wandered off... [Smokin' Joe])
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