Is this really it? (re: possible Obama's Kenyan B.C. - Attny Taitz) Click on the link

orlytaitzesq.com ^ | 8/2/2009 | rxsid

[El Gato]

The only constitutional requirements for eligibility to be president are birth within the United States, being age 35 or above and having 14 years residence in the United States.

You know perfectly well that is *NOT* what the Constitution says. You may be of the opinion that it's what it means, but that's what it is, your opinion.

[faucetman]

Yes, but his having been born in that hospital is much less clear

ONLY if you disregard his LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE that states he was born in Colon Hospital in Colon, Panama and the document was prepared by Colon Hospital, What do you want? The VIDEO?

[Tennessee Nana]

You’re on Central time...

One hour behind me..

Good night..

:)

[MHGinTN]

It is not his citizenship in question, it would be the evidence of divided loyalties calling into question his allegiances and thus his natural born status. I am presuming his defaulting to Indonesian citizenship for whatever reasons after becoming an adult would cancel his natural born status because of divided citizenship.

[faucetman]

“If Obama was an American citizen by birth (e.g., if he was born in Hawaii), he would not lose his American citizenship even if he later took on another country’s citizenship, according to the Supreme Court’s decision in Afroyim v. Rusk.”

Did you actually READ about it? Who’s to say that he didn’t renounce his U.S. citizenship? Who’s to say that Indonesia would REQUIRE him to renounce any other countries citizenship to be allowed Indonesian citizenship? He could reclaim his citizenship later, BUT that would make him a NATURALIZED citizen, ineligible to be president.

“a United States Supreme Court decision that set an important legal precedent that a United States citizen cannot be deprived of American citizenship INVOLUNTARILY”

“The court ruled, in a 5-4 decision, that Afroyim’s citizenship could not be taken away without his CONSENT”

[faucetman]

THANK YOU!!!!! I was born in Rochester, NY, but I CAN READ

[faucetman]

While this may be interesting.......I don’t care if Obama was born in Zanzibar, Kenya, or Canada. If he wasn’t born in the U.S.A., he is TOAST. Deport the bass terd.

[El Gato]

Fact he is still an Indonesian citizen is substantive. And his Indonesian citizenship and subjection to Indonesian sovereignty ought to preclude him from being a Natural Born Citizen, even if he were born in Hawaii (he wasn't).

No, once natural born, no actions taken by ones parents, natural or adoptive, can change that status. It's even true citizen children in general. Only he could have renounced his citizenship, and even then not until he turned 21, in general anyway. Of course if had done that, there would be paperwork.

[El Gato]

Unless the law changed since, and as there is no proof he ever renounced his Kenyan/Indonesian citiezenship when he came of age, then he is not a US citizen...

If he was a citizen before, then his case would be different than yours. He never would have not been a US citizen, even though he would have been a dual citizen. He never would have needed to take a citizenship oath. If he was a citizen to begin with. A child cannot renounce his/her citizenship under US law, and he was only about 10 when he returned to the US. He could have maintained any Indonesian citizenship, simply because the US did not and does not officialy recognize it. But he would have needed to travel to and from the US on a US passport, especially after turn 21, because traveling to the US on a foreign passport is one way to renounce citizenship.

For this purpose it would not matter if he was naturalized or native born (of which "natural born" is, a subset)

[Tennessee Nana]

For this purpose it would not matter if he was naturalized or native born (of which “natural born” is, a subset)
____________________________________________

No, naturalized or native is not enough for POTUS...

He must be “natural born”

He cant be because Obama Sr was born in Zanzibar/Kenya..

[little jeremiah]

Maybe that’s why 0bama had people go into his passport files, to scrub evidence of a foreign passport.

[BP2]

My "how do you get by the October 1963" comment was addressed to your proposition that Obama might have been born in Zanzibar.

I'm a fan of timelines, so here's one that includes an event that may have occurred in Mombasa in August 1961:

1888 - Germany acquires the right of collecting duties on the coast and in 1890, temporarily takes over the coastal strip on payment of £200,000 to the Sultan of Zanzibar.

1895 - Via various agreements, the Brits lease the strategically-important Ten-Mile Strip coastal region from the Sultan of Zanzibar for £11,000 per year. The Sultan RETAINS OWNERSHIP despite occupation by the British, which is UNIQUE from the other lands in the British and German Protectorates (meaning that Obama might be viewed as a Native Born Subject of the Sultan of Zanzibar at birth in 1961).

Aug 4, 1961 - Obama Jr is born in the 10-Mile Strip, in Mombasa. His mother's plan was for him to be born in Hawaii, possibly Washington state, after finding out about Obama SR's Kenyan marriage. But because of flight restrictions, she is not allowed to fly. She would have gone by ship, but she may have given birth by sea - very undesirable. She flies out as soon as she is physically able a few days later to Seattle.

Oct 5, 1963 - An agreement is executed in the form of an exchange of letters between the Prime Ministers of Kenya and Zanzibar. The 10-mile strip gained its sovereignty before the rest of what would become Kenya to avoid (re)annexation by Zanzibar -- if Zanzibar reneged, or the REST of Kenya failed to become a republic.

Dec 10, 1963 - Zanzibar declares independence from the UK.

Dec 12, 1963 - Kenya declares independence from the UK, signing its Constitution. As part of the Oct 5th agreement with Zanzibar -- and to solidify Kenya's claim to the 10-Mile Strip -- the Kadhi's Court, Chief Kadhi and Kadhis are established under Section 66 of the Constitution of Kenya.

Jan 12, 1964 - a revolution take place in Zanzibar, in which the Sultan and his cabinet are forced to flee

Oct 29, 1964 - Zanzibar becomes the "United Republic of Tanzania", following the Revolution of January 1964 and the merger of Tanganyika via the Articles of Union signed in April 1964

Dec 12, 1964 - Kenya officially becomes the "Republic of Kenya"

[Fred Nerks]

Curiously...Obama Sr’s FATHER CONVERTED TO ISLAM IN ZANZIBAR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.

“...Barack Obama Sr. was the son of Habiba Akumu Nyanjango of Karabondi, Kenya, the second wife. However, he was raised by Onyango’s third wife, Sarah Ogwel of Kogelo, after Akumu left her family and separated from her husband in 1945.[3][10] Before working as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi, Onyango had travelled widely, enlisting in the British colonial forces and visiting Europe, India, and Zanzibar, where he converted from Roman Catholicism to Islam and took the name Hussein Onyango Obama...”

It’s from wiki...but

[MestaMachine]

“Aug 4, 1961 - Obama Jr is born in the 10-Mile Strip, in Mombasa.”

*1960 The state of emergency imposed on 1952 was lifted. The British agreed to set a date for the transition to majority rule. The Kenya African National Union (KANU), a descendant of KAU, was formed. The KANU (led by Kenyatta, Oginga Odinga, and Tom Mboya) was formed by the country’s two largest ethnic groups, the Kikuyu and Luo.

*1961 Kenyatta was released from detention. The British were forced to introduce a new policy which allowed Africans to buy and farm the White Highlands. Kenya’s first pre-independence general elections were held. The KANU defeated the Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU). The KADU (led by Masinde Muliro, Daniel arap Moi, and Ronald Ngala) represented smaller and less advantaged ethnic groups of the Great Rift Valley and coastal areas, including the Kalenjin. The KADU advocated ***Majimboism (regionalism in Swahili) which would create ethnic-based, semi-autonomous regions.***

*Dec 1963 The constitution set up a multi-party system. Three political parties, the KANU, KADU, and the African People’s Party (APP), contested the second general elections. The KANU won and ***Majimboism was abandoned.***

[WhiskeyX]

I’m very short on time at present, so I must keep the reply equally brief. Suffice it to say, the title, Law of Nations, has been in use by numerous authors of legal treatises on the subject for many centuries. See for example any essays you may find regarding the Roman jus gentium, IIRC. Of particular note to the Founding Fathers are Vattel’s works and essays reviewing his works and those of Grotius. To make a long story short, Thomas Jefferson for one example alone owned copies of many of these important works dating back to the Greek republics; the Roman juris civiles; and latest French, Swiss, German, and English legal and ethical works as they authored the U.S. Constitution. They are catalogued in his library holdings and were acquired in part while he was Ambassador Pleni-potentiary in France to suplement the library being rebuilkt after the fire at Shadwell.

Vattel was relied upon extensively by Thomas Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers in part because it was among the most recent and comprehensive works which represented their concepts of natural law in government in opposition to what they viewed as unacceptable in contemporary British legal philosophy and practice.

The Law of Nations under various names in various languages has existed as a body of customs and bilateral and multilateral international relations throughout the thousands of years in which kingdoms and empires have existed. Written works regarding the Law of Nations have survived in whole or part from several millenia.

Thomas Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers utilized Vattel’s work and many of the other works in concert to assist the effort of authoring the Constitution.

[hoosiermama]

Interesting...

What is this all about?

zanzibar.project Info PageTo see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the zanzibar.project Archives. (The current archive is only available to the list ...

www.theissresearch.org/mailman/listinfo/zanzibar.project · Cached page

[hoosiermama]

Before working as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi

Now where have we heard about missionaries in Nairobi before....Wonder if the connection continued until the birth of Jrn?

[rodguy911]

Truly amazing,hard to even imagine.

[patlin]

even then not until he turned 21

The 26th Amendment was ratified in July 1971 in which the drinking age and voting age were lowered to 18, thus allowing young military to vote. This means that Obama would have had to trot himself down to the local immigration office in 1979 and renounce his Indonesian citizenship unless his mother had already done that upon Obi's return at age 11, but this is highly unlikely due to the fac that he is named as an of age child dependent on monetary support in the Dunham/Soetoro divorce papers.

Obama’s actions from the day he turned 18(legal adult in 1979) rest soley on him and since the divorce was not final until 1980 and Barry was already enrolled in Occidental, it is highly likely that he was registered there as an Indonesian student and therefore he, himself declared loyalty to Indonesia instead of the USA.

But, this still does not exclude the fact he was British at birth and therefore at best was only a ‘native’ citizen born on soil to only 1 American parent per the 14th amendment.

[Fred Nerks]

That may be from the Gloria Hagberg story.They weren’t missionaries, from what I can see...

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/magazine/-/434746/525930/-/view/printVersion/-/i13vxrz/-/index.html

The USIS had provided a house and staff for the family in Muthaiga near the US ambassador’s residence.

Their cook was Hussein Onyango Obama, none other than the paternal grandfather of President Obama. Gloria recalls the times Hussein’s son, the youthful student Barack Obama Sr, would visit their house, announcing: “I’ve come to see the old man!”