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To: kabar
It is not fraudulent generically.

No, its just not "best evidence". It is a secondary, derivative docuement. A certified reproduction of the as-filed "Certificate of Live Birth" is certainly preferable, and can be obtained from the State of Hawaii on request. And, to the best of my knowledge, a primary document is REQUIRED for certain purposes, such as applying for a passport, or enrolling in Little League.

30 posted on 07/26/2009 11:44:11 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: John Valentine
And, to the best of my knowledge, a primary document is REQUIRED for certain purposes, such as applying for a passport, or enrolling in Little League.

I copied the text below from here without restoring the links it contains.

Credibility of the "Certification of Live Birth"

The computer-generated “Certification of Live Birth” was first used in November 2001 to allow the State of Hawaii to pull up birth records quicker for people requesting a “birth certificate” in person. At the very bottom of the form are the words, “This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” [HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]."

However, despite this written notice on the form, some Hawaii state agencies do not accept the “Certification of Live Birth” as irrefutable verification of Hawaiian birth. There have been numerous cases when the Hawaii Family Court System required more detailed data for paternity suits. Additionally, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands provides the following guidelines to Hawaiian natives applying for Hawaiian Home Lands homestead:

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:

- A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
- A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
- A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

“In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.” (emphasis added)

Additionally, the “Certification of Live Birth” is not recognized by many Federal agencies. DoD 5220.22-M, the "National Industrial Security Program Operating Manual," provides baseline standards for the protection of classified information released or disclosed to industry. “Unified Facilities Guide Specifications,” section 1.5.22.2 allows for a total of 18 different means to verify US citizenship, ranging from a military ID card to even a “Hawaii certificate of foreign birth.” The “Certification of Live Birth” is not on the list of approved documents acceptable for proof of Citizenship.


61 posted on 07/27/2009 12:42:34 AM PDT by TChad
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To: John Valentine
In the case of a passport, the "secondary" document may suffice.

When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11. All documentation submitted as citizenship evidence will be returned to you. These documents will be delivered with your newly issued U.S. passport or in a separate mailing.

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):

Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport

Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*

Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth

Naturalization Certificate

Certificate of Citizenship

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

NOTE: If you do not have primary evidence of U.S. citizenship or your U.S. birth certificate does not meet the requirements, please see Secondary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship.

The question is whether the Hawaii version is acceptable or not. According to Hawaii, Certified copies of these records may be issued to authorized individuals and used for such diverse purposes as school entry, passports, Social Security participation, driver’s licenses, employment, sports participation, survivor’s benefits, proof of property rights, and other needs.

99 posted on 07/27/2009 5:05:13 AM PDT by kabar
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