[Secret Agent Man]

I would say the ‘citizen of the United States at birth” would probably be argued to mean ‘natural born’. He was born on US soil, and is a US citizen from the moment of birth.

Now don’t get me wrong, I would certainly love to see something that knocks this out of the park, but between Title 8 1401 and Title 8 1405 these would be interpreted by the SCOTUS to determine if he was natural born or not, both sides would be claiming opposite answers.

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401Prev | Next § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

Both Title 8 1401 and 1405 cover natural born citizens. The first line in 1401 is addressing the fact that if you are born on US soil you are a natural born citizen. If you don’t think it does this area of law is the only one in the US Code that talks about who is a citizen and who isn’t, it’s where I (a natural born citizen) know that I am one because I point to the first line of this title, and have my answer. I can point to nowhere else in the US Code and find ‘natural born citizen’ defined in any other way.

This line of logic will only win if he wasn’t born in Hawaii and it can be proven. Right now it cannot be proven. we need to see the original long form COLB. The bigger argument for us now is the fact he was adopted by an Indonesian man back when Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship, and to go to Indonesian schools Barack had to be Indonesian, which would mean he gave up his US citizenship, therefore making him ineligible for the US presidency.

[MHGinTN]

“Both Title 8 1401 and 1405 cover natural born citizens.” No it doesn’t! You are purposely conflating citizenship with natural born citizen. Reading several SCOTUS cases regarding citizenship, it is evident that there are at least three defined ways to be a citizen of the United SAtates: 1) native born (like anchor babies), born on U.S. soil; 2) naturalized by statute of law; 3) natural born, as in two American citizen parents and may or may not be born on U.S. soil (affirmed by Senate resolution in McCain’s case, to which Barry Obama signed on in April 2008).

[John Valentine]

“TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401Prev | Next § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth” never even mentions the type of citizenship called “natural born” since it does not and by definition CANNOT derive from statue law.

[El Gato]

Now don’t get me wrong, I would certainly love to see something that knocks this out of the park, but between Title 8 1401 and Title 8 1405 these would be interpreted by the SCOTUS to determine if he was natural born or not, both sides would be claiming opposite answers.

A law passed by Congress cannot change the Constitution, nor the meaning of any of it's terms. They must mean now what they meant when written. It would be up to a Court, probably the Supreme Court in the final analysis, to determine what that meaning was and is. Title 8, section 1401 and 1405 were passed under Congress power to define a uniform rule of Naturalization. Thus anyone who is a citizen, at birth or later, only because of those sections, or any other Congressional laws, must logically be a naturalized citizen. Congress has no power to create or define any other sort.

[Beckwith]

Title 8 1401 and Title 8 1405 only address citizenship.

These regulations have nothing whatsoever to do with determining “natural born” status.

[Uncle Sham]

"I would say the ‘citizen of the United States at birth” would probably be argued to mean ‘natural born’. He was born on US soil, and is a US citizen from the moment of birth.

It can only be argued what is says and if the term natural born citizen is not present, there is no way to infer that it was meant to be. In fact, that it is not present might actually be purposeful and intended by those who fashioned the text.

The term natural born citizen had a meaning at the time of the writing of the Constitution. Basically, it meant born to parents who are citizens and in the country of their citizenship.

[American in Israel]

The root of the problem between the short form registration and the long form birth certificate is that you can be born anywhere and get a short form by just declaring it, but you have to physically be born in Hawaii to get the long form.

I suspect the reason Barry is playing short form games to the tune of a million bucks in legal fees is that he thought he could buy a long form by now and is finding it harder to do than he thought.

At this point if Barry showed a long form with a great flourish I would suspect it is just a payoff in the registration office. One does not spend a million bucks to avoid having to fill out a simple form and then produce it. Barry has lost all credibility.