Posted on 07/14/2009 11:40:25 PM PDT by myknowledge
Voters want Britain to scrap nuclear weapons altogether rather than replace Trident, according to a new Guardian/ICM poll today. The result marks a sharp turnaround in public opinion amid growing debate about the cost of a new generation of nuclear weapons and the impact of conventional defence cutbacks on the war in Afghanistan.
For decades nuclear disarmament has been seen as a minority issue, with most voters assumed to favour continued investment in an independent British nuclear weapons system. But today's poll shows that 54% of all voters would prefer to abandon nuclear weapons rather than put money into a new generation of Trident warheads, as the government plans.
Last week's G8 summit brought suggestions that Britain might include Trident in international disarmament talks. "What we need is collective action by the nuclear weapons powers to say that we are prepared to reduce our nuclear weapons," said Gordon Brown.
Today's figures mark a dramatic turnaround in public opinion since Trident renewal was announced by Brown three years ago. In July 2006, 51% backed renewal, while 39% opposed it. Since then support for a new Trident system has fallen by nine points while opposition has grown by 15 points.
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
There is no way you can disinvent something like a nuclear warhead, because if they are scrapped, the knowledge is still there, and why scrap them if you can hide them?
Practically, you would have to burn every technical manual on nuclear weapons manufacturing, kill every nuclear / physics scientist in the world, destroy all computer files containing data on nuclear weapons manufacturing, burn down every nuclear laboratory, close down all uranium mines and destroy every missile delivery system in the world.
To me, that is practically impossible, and a fantasy, as a matter of fact.
Mankind's sinful attitude keeps the nuclear weapons and the knowledge alive.
What do you think?
The suicide of the West following cultural exhaustion.
Ignoramuses foresee the successor civilization as a secular-progressive paradise, but only because they grossly misunderstand human nature.
The successor to the West will be a new Dark Age of human misery “made more sinister by the lights of perverted science” (to quote Churchill).
When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns.
When nuclear weapons are outlawed, only rogue nations will have nuclear weapons.
It's a Guardian poll. They might as well have polled peace activists from Hiroshima. Ridiculous nonsense.
I think the Brits are beginning to think like the Canadians of the last few decades. “Those cowboy Americans will protect us and we can put that money in to some more cool welfare programs. Lord knows the teachers could use another pay raise and some more minorities could use college education grants.”
But I got some news for the Brits. Obama is thinking the same way you are and has no intention of paying for your security or ours. Obama thinks that you can talk your enemies out of wanting to kill you.
But the truth is that you can not talk your enemies out of wanting to kill you. The only reason your enemy does not kill you is because he fears death himself. I you allay that fear he will kill you.
The Mutually Assured Destruction philosophy of the 1960s, 70s and 80s was the most logical defense strategy in the history of the world. It kept two competing world powers at peace for a record setting period of history (my best guess off hand).
Now you have this historical illiterate, Obama, messing with a winning strategy just when we have a reemerging Russian empire that is beginning to rebuild its arsenal and when China is showing an interest in flexing its military muscle.
Added to that you have wild cards like North Korea and a destabilizing Pakistan that any time could decide it is time to vaporize their enemy of the moment.
Yep, perfect time to disarm.
The only way to fix this is to build new nuclear weapons but with our idea of stopping any new production it isn’t going to happen. Under Obama’s idea of stopping ‘nuclear proliferation’ we are actually disarming ourselves.
On top of that it will take many years once we start the ball rolling to train people and build the buildings to produce these weapons.
The United States is no longer in a position to protect most of its allies. Nothing like the Cold War, in which the size of the military was fairly larger back then, and defense spending as ~10-20% of GDP.
This is the worst time to disarm when four rogue nations are now jumping up on the world stage, preparing to replace the United States as global leader.
The only way to keep potential enemies is to arm yourselves to the teeth, not let them kill you. (because Obama is so cowardly)
What do you think?
I think nuclear devices are clever, and that it is silly (if not literally animist) to call them sinful. There are a great number of ways to use them to dramatically improve the human condition, and I think getting the genie out of the bottle and outside of state control is a good thing, even if humanity is still so barbaric that the only ways they can conceive to use them are destructive.
And I think the world is going to dramatically change the moment people get a clue and realize that:
1. there are quite a few ways to start a fusion reaction that do not involve a fission reaction or the need for expensive heavy elements.
2. Nuclear devices are designed backwards, and there is an almost trivial way to make them much smaller, cleaner, and more efficient.
It's going to be an interesting century...
I guess ACORN’s made it over there too.
I don’t believe the average Britain would like to be sacrificed.
I agree. Nuclear weapons are a testament to our collective fear. They can never be “uninvented”, and in a dangerous world I dont think we can do without them. Tragic, but true.
Ever since the Manhattan Project, along with the testing at Los Alamos, that nukes were born.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are grim reminders of nuclear warfare.
Nuclear weapons are a testament to our desire to live free of foreign conquest or domination. When society no longer has that desire, we will give up our nuclear weapons.
I think you may be reading too much into this.
If you notice, the question is “do you thnk we should replace the Trident missile program”. The majority say yes, but the survey doesnt ask why they say that. Are they naive peaceniks who think that war is now obsolete and we should all sit down and discuss our problems instead? I dont think so. Remember that there is a considerable argument going on in the UK at the moment regarding the general level of equipment available to the military. It is commonly believed that investing in Trident has taken too much money from the general equipment “pot”. In other words, because we are building four boomers at a cost of umpteen squillion pounds, Tommy Atkins in Afghanistan is making do without enough helicopters and APC’s that can resist improvised mines.
Now I must declare an interest in this. I work in the shipyard that will build these boomers. As an employee of the company, I think they are a great thing! As a taxpayer, I have to admit at balking at the price. As a military theorist, to be honest I think the nay-sayers have got a point. Although it would be nice to have Trident boats, I just dont think they are going to be cost effective. I would prefer we went with “cruise missile boats”. They are not as good, but they are cheaper and more versatile (we can fit the missiles with nuclear or conventional warheads).
Brits are apparently not so bright, survival not so high on their list of things to do. Britain, you are familiar with darwin right? Something tells me that you and yours will be eliminated from the gene pool at some point probably sooner rather than later.
But why do we fear the alien, the stranger, the threat of being enslaved?
Because we are flawed Human Beings and that kind of thing goes on all the time.
See 16.
We DON'T fear the alien or the stranger. Our country has a record of welcoming aliens and strangers that is unmatched by any civilization in history.
We fear being conquered by a foreign power because we like our freedom and our constitutional republic, which have been bequeathed to us by immeasurable sacrifices on the part of prior generations.
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