Posted on 07/14/2009 10:08:26 AM PDT by NYer
Yep.
Are you kidding??? Yes. Vietnam was a ‘bad thing’!
That entire episode had more dire consequences on our culture and national security than the entire Civil War. It radicalized our press, our society, and demoralized our military. From that chaos of the 60’s it spawned a culture war that we are still fighting today.
Ok! Your turn. Now, tell me if/how you think Vietnam was a ‘good thing’.
In the old days of Ferdinand and Isabella, when they sent Columbus to make discoveries, if the likes of Kathleen Kennedy Townsend had been found in Spain during the days of the saintly Fra Tomas, she would have been subjected to stern inquiry followed by dread judgment and much more dramatic and quite final methods of resolving her baby-slaughtering rebellion against the Church and the teachings of Holy Mother the Church. Those were the days, my friend.
As to the Bible, Moses received from God Himself the permanent injunction against murder. It was in all the Bibles. Then there is all that coverage in Jeremiah of the baby-murdering cult of Moloch, requiring the live incineration of innocent newborns as an act of pagan "piety." The Jews who performed such acts were responsible for the Babylonian Captivity of the Jews. Again, it was in all the bibles. AmChurch "Catholics" who don't want to be instructed by the Teaching Magisterium of the Church are not "Catholic." Cut them and the non-churchgoing apostates out of the herd who fraudulently CLAIM Catholicism and you will find an overwhelming majority of actual Catholics voting against Obamanation.
She is one of ten children of Bugs Bobby and Ethel. She was once a pro-life Catholic but has apparently apostasized to whore after the favor of leftistworld. In Catholic circles, we call this the sin of seeking “human respect” above all else. She once had a brother who served in Congress from Taxachusetts and her father was a US Senator from New York until he encountered Sirhan Bishaara Sirhan and her uncle was POTUS. Her cousin holds a Congressional seat from Rhode Island when he is not in rehab. No New York Congressman in the family as yet. A family member named Christopher Kennedy would like to offer himself to be US Senator from Illinois. Her brother, Bobby, Jr., (whose voice makes the late Bugs Bobby sound like John Wayne) is the environmentalist whacko who infests New York by his presence but he has not made the plunge for public office as yet.
LOL! Don't give him any ideas!
The only thing wrong with the Vietnam War was the result. In those days, liberals were willing to start wars to free people. They lacked the spine to follow through and win in short order. Nowadays, the modern models of Demoncowardice snivel and whine against even starting the wars. PaleoPaulie/Neville Chamberlain forein nonpolicy is no answer to liberalism. It IS liberalism.
It’s clear her mother and grandmother didn’t believe in abortion.
Well said. Thanks.
No, not at all.
That entire episode had more dire consequences on our culture and national security than the entire Civil War. It radicalized our press, our society, and demoralized our military. You reverse causality here. It is because our society was radicalized we have failed to win. It was not the war iteself but the narcissistic egotism of the then young generation that has shown itself during that time. Stated differently: our loss in the war (B) and the poor state of our culture (C) have a common antecedent --- the most spoiled, egotistic and leftist generation in our history (A). That is, A caused both B and C, rather than B caused C, as you assume. It is a mistake to think that in the absence of that war our culture would be any different today. Students would be revolting against something else. "Make love not war" is ultimate stupidity no matter what your views are ("Eat, don't sleep" --- how does that sound to you?) This stupidity and self-senteredness would manifest itself in the same way --- destruction of the marriage ("F--k, don't marry"), child-rearing ("F--k but use condom"), basic civility (that same words now commonplace from t-shirts to TV), and work ethics ("F--k, don't work"). All these things would've happened war or no war:.
Socialism was on the march ever since the "Progressive era" of Wilson (whom Hillary so fondly recalled during the campaign). It culminates during the FDR reign, er, presidency. All the while socialists were undertaking "march through the institutions" --- taking over education and media. By 1960s, the new generation had no idea about the principles on which this country was founded. This created vacuum that had to be filled. This was also the most spoiled by (i) prosperity and (ii) the "greatest" generation that not only won WWII but also had lived through the Depression and elevated all things material to the top of the hierarchy of needs. Obama is merely the latest step in this long development. Vietnam was is only a small blimp on that radar.
"tell me if/how you think Vietnam was a ‘good thing’."
Gladly.
A good general fights far from home; the poor one waits until the enemy breaks his door. We faced an enemy more powerful than Gernamy --- Soviet communism. Like Islam, it cannot stand still due to structure of its ideology and raison d'etre. It has to expand merely to survive. There must exist a foreign enemy (capitalism). Under these circumstances, every attempt to contain that expansion is not only moral but WISE. We tried to do that in Vietnam, in Europe, in Africa, and in our own hemisphere --- that is, wherever possible.
Republicans and Democrats agreed on that. They differed in domestic policy but presented a unified front to the Soviets. (Unlike Carter and Obama, for instance, Kennedy was a patriot and an anti-communist).
After Vietnam, the Soviets expanded rapidly thorough the world. Angola fell under the invasion by Cuba (they did not dare openly invade until then). In Chile a communist Alliende came to power. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan ONLY because they knew that the pacifist, demoralized America would do NOTHING. Western Europe turned even more left. This is all understandable: when one idea (capitalism, democracy) seems weak and loosing, people flock to its alternative (socialism, dictatorship).
How much do you think it has cost us --- in extra defense spending, in the loss of allies, etc.? A great deal. More that you will ever know (because America turned not only pacifist but also inward, and you simply did not hear about Angola, Chile, etc.).
Subsequently, Reagan uncreased defense spending and placed strategic missiles in Europe. That has won the Cold War. Soviets yielded to STRENGTH --- just as Lybian Gaddafi stopped supporting terrorism after his house has been bombed.
In more recent times, Bush's entry into Iraq was SMART regardless of the WMDs and all such nonsense. Not only Iraq ceased to be a threat, but Iran was now wedged between our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. Syria was now wedged between the Mediterranean and out troops in Iraq. The entire Muslim war machine was weekened. And al Queda was attacking our troops in Iraq, not downtown Manhattan. A good general fights wars far away from home whenever possible. Our strength under Reagan and, to a lesser extent, under Bush has ended for the foreseeable future. And it is not because of anything Obama does or will do: it is because of people that voted for him. It is because most Americans don't want to fight for anything. As TV programming well demonstrates, they want to make love (to anybody), not war (for whatever noble cause).
Not as well said as your post #69, but thanks.
You have FReepmail.
TopQuark, tks for taking the time for we thought out response. How old were you in 1970?
I was 17.
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