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To: AuH2ORepublican
John Bingham was pretty much the sole “Framer” of the 14th Amendment, and he made clear not just in 1871, but in 1866 while the amendment was being debated in the House floor, that the intent of the Privileges or Immunities Clause was to incorporate the Bill of Rights against the states.

No cite or quote for your falsehood, natch.

BTW, enjoy this:

Note that Bingham makes a clear distinction between State citizens and citizens of the United States. Additionally, moments later Bingham goes on to add in this same speech that it had always been “decided, and rightfully, that these amendments, defining and protecting the rights of men and citizens, were only limits on the power of Congress, not on the power of the States.”
http://federalistblog.us/mt/articles/14th_dummy_guide.htm
244 posted on 07/14/2009 1:59:38 PM PDT by Mojave (Don't blame me. I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Mojave

Too lazy to find your own quotes? Here’s Congressman Bingham on the House floor in 1866 in support of the 14th Amendment:

“. . . the amendment proposed stands in the very words of the Constitution of the United States as it came to us from the hands of its illustrious framers. Every word of the proposed amendment is today in the Constitution of our country, save the words conferring the express grant of power upon the Congress of the United States. The residue of the resolution, as the House will see by a reference to the Constitution, is the language of the second section of the fourth article, and of a portion of the fifth amendment adopted by the First Congress in 1789, and made part of the Constitution of the country. . . .

Sir, it has been the want of the Republic that there was not an express grant of power in the Constitution to enable the whole people of every State, by congressional enactment, to enforce obedience to these requirements of the Constitution. Nothing can be plainer to thoughtful men than that, if the grant of power had been originally conferred upon the Congress of the nation, and legislation had been upon your statute books to enforce these requirements of the Constitution in every State, that rebellion which has scarred and blasted the land would have been an impossibility. . . .

* * * *

And, sir, it is equally clear by every construction of the Constitution, its contemporaneous construction, its continued construction, legislative, executive, and judicial, that these great provisions of the Constitution, this immortal bill of rights embodied in the Constitution, rested for its execution and enforcement hitherto upon the fidelity of the States. . . .”

Cong.Globe, supra, 1033-1034.
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0332_0046_ZD.html

And check out what Justice Black wrote about the floor debate (it’s chock full of Bingham quotes):

Opposition speakers emphasized that the Amendment would destroy state’s rights and empower Congress to legislate on matters of purely local concern. Cong.Globe, supra, 1054, 1057, 1063-1065, 1083, 1085-1087. See also id. at 1082. Some took the position that the Amendment was unnecessary because the Bill of Rights were already secured against state violation. Id. at 1059, 1066, 1088. Mr. Bingham joined issue on this contention:

The gentleman seemed to think that all persons could have remedies for all violations of their rights of “life, liberty, and property” in the Federal courts.

I ventured to ask him yesterday when any action of that sort was ever maintained in any of the Federal courts of the United States to redress the great wrong which has been practiced, and which is being practiced now in more States than one of the Union under the authority of State laws, denying to citizens therein equal protection or any protection in the rights of life, liberty, and property.

* * * *

. . . A gentleman on the other side interrupted me and wanted to know if I could cite a decision showing that the power of the Federal Government to enforce in the United States courts the bill of rights under the articles of amendment to the Constitution had been denied. I answered that I was prepared to introduce such decisions, and that is exactly what makes plain the necessity of adopting this amendment.

Mr. Speaker, on this subject, I refer the House and the country to a decision of the Supreme Court, to be found in 7 Peters 247, in the case of Barron vs. The Mayor and City Council of Baltimore, involving the question whether the provisions of the fifth article of the amendments to the Constitution are binding upon the State of Maryland and to be enforced in the Federal courts. The Chief Justice says:

The people of the United States framed such a Government for the United States as they supposed best adapted to their situation and best calculated to promote their interests. The powers they conferred on this Government were to be exercised by itself, and the limitations of power, if expressed in general terms, are naturally, and we think necessarily, applicable to the Government created by the instrument. They are limitations of power granted in the instrument itself, not of distinct governments, framed by different persons and for different purposes.

If these propositions be correct, the fifth amendment must be understood as restraining the power of the General Government, not as applicable to the States.

I read one further decision on this subject — the case of the Lessee of Livingston vs. Moore and others, 7 Peters, page 551. The court, in delivering its opinion, says:

As to the amendments of the Constitution of the United States, they must be put out of the case, since it is now settled that those amendments do not extend to the States, and this observation disposes of the next exception, which relies on the seventh article of those amendments.

* * * *

The question is simply whether you will give by this amendment to the people of the United States the power, by legislative enactment, to punish officials of States for violation of the oaths enjoined upon them by their Constitution? . . . Is the bill of rights to stand in our Constitution hereafter, as in the past five years within eleven States, a mere dead letter? It is absolutely essential to the safety of the people that it should be enforced.

Mr. Speaker, it appears to me that this very provision of the bill of rights brought in question this day, upon this trial before the House, more than any other provision of the Constitution, makes that unity of government which constitutes us one people, by which and through which American nationality came to be, and only by the enforcement of which can American nationality continue to be.

* * * *

What more could have been added to that instrument to secure the enforcement of these provisions of the bill of rights in every State, other than the additional grant of power which we ask this day? . . .

As slaves were not protected by the Constitution, there might be some color of excuse for the slave States in their disregard for the requirement of the bill of rights as to slaves, and refusing them protection in life or property

But, sir, there never was even colorable excuse, much less apology, for any man, North or South, claiming that any State Legislature, or State court, or State Executive has any right to deny protection to any free citizen of the United States within their limits in the rights of life, liberty, and property. Gentlemen who oppose this amendment oppose the grant of power to enforce the hill of rights. Gentlemen who oppose this amendment simply declare to these rebel States, go on with your confiscation statutes, your statutes of banishment, your statutes of unjust imprisonment, your statutes of murder and death against men because of their loyalty to the Constitution and Government of the United States.

Id. at 1089-1091.

. . . Where is the power in Congress, unless this or some similar amendment be adopted, to prevent the reenactment [p98] of those infernal statutes . . . ? Let some man answer. Why, sir, the gentleman from New York [Mr. HALE] . . . yesterday gave up the argument on this point. He said that the citizens must rely upon the State for their protection. I admit that such is the rule under the Constitution as it now stands.

Id. at 1093.

As one important writer on the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment has observed,

Bingham’s speech in defense and advocacy of his amendment comprehends practically everything that was said in the press or on the floor of the House in favor of the resolution. . . .

Kendrick, Journal of the Joint Committee on Reconstruction (1914) 217. A reading of the debates indicates that no member except Mr. Hale had contradicted Mr. Bingham’s argument that, without this Amendment, the states had power to deprive persons of the rights guaranteed by the first eight amendments. Mr. Hale had conceded that he did not

know of a case where it has ever been decided that the United States Constitution is sufficient for the protection of the liberties of the citizen.

Cong.Globe, supra, at 1064. But he was apparently unaware of the decision of this Court in Barron v. Baltimore, supra. For he thought that the protections of the Bill of Rights had already been “thrown over us in some way, whether with or without the sanction of a judicial decision. . . .” And, in any event, he insisted, “. . . the American people have not yet found that their State governments are insufficient to protect the rights and liberties of the citizen.” He further objected, as had most of the other opponents to the proposal, that the Amendment authorized the Congress to “arrogate” to itself vast powers over all kinds of affairs which should properly be left to the States. Cong.Globe, supra, 1064-1065.

http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0332_0046_ZD.html


250 posted on 07/14/2009 2:41:15 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Fred Thompson appears human-sized because he is actually standing a million miles away.)
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