A coup or not a coup? That is the question for Honduras

St Louis Examiner.com ^ | July 7, 2009 | Ryan Witt Go to Ryan's Home Page

[don-o]

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met with now deposed President Manuel Zelaya today in Washington D.C. and got some of what he wanted. After the meeting Clinton issued a statement that the United seeks the "restoration of the democratic, constitutional order in Honduras." The quote is somewhat of a swipe at the de facto government currently in place in that it assumes the current rule is not democratic and not constitutional.

Still, lacking in the statement is any demand that Honduras immediately accept back Zelaya as President. Also suspiciously missing are any more threats of sanctions or support for a U.N. peacekeeping force in Honduras. It may be that the United States is resolving itself to the fact that the current government in some form will be sticking around. Clinton did say she is the United States is supporting an international mediation of the conflict through Costa Rica but we will see if anything comes out of those negotiations. The current regime seems intent on keeping Zelaya out at all costs right now.

The current government is claiming that their takeover was not in fact a coup but a legitimate overthrow of a president who had exceeded his power. Whether the overthrow of Zelaya is labeled a "coup" matters greatly as the word certainly does not have a positive connotation and makes the current regime seem illegitimate.

Key to whether one considers the overthrow of Zelaya as a coup is a definition of the word. Most definitions simply define a coup as a sudden exercise of political force which includes the overthrow of a government by a small force. Some say a coup must be violent while others do not. Most would agree that a coup lacks legal authority. In my research I have found no legal definition of a coup under international law.

So, if a coup is defined generally and neutrally as an overthrow of government by a small force then undoubtedly the actions in Honduras qualify as a coup. If a coup requires violence then the situation in Honduras still may qualify as the government used force to depose Zelaya and since he has been deposed the government used force to keep his supporters away. If a coup must lack legal authority then the situation is very tricky as Zelaya was disobeying a court order and the laws of the Honduran Congress. At the same time, the military, Congress, and Supreme Court had no constitutional authority to take Zelaya from his home and send him to another country. If he really violated the law it seems they could have legitimately arrested Zelaya and put him on trial. I certainly side with those who say the events of Honduras look more like a coup given the last point. A more detailed analysis of my opinion can be seen here.

[don-o]

Whole lot of Clintonese from this guy, methinks.

[avacado]

Their constitution worked by kicking out a criminal to the constitution. I am just jealousy that theirs works.

[kindred]

Not a coup. It was an election and the loser refused to vacate the office and the communist dictators of Cuba, Brazil and America support the communist who lost the election and so the American media decides to call the election a coup.
The communist run media of America run by the lying lib dibs.

[edcoil]

No coup - rule of law - our President and media don’t like the rule of law.

[Sax]

What’s next from the administration? Most likely more spin to back a bad play rather than face the truth. It certainly appears rather clear they backed the bad guy in this one.

[bboop]

I thot that was the question re Obama — ‘coup or not a coup.’ Slow coup, I call it.

[Cboldt]

-- Whole lot of Clintonese from this guy, methinks. --

Totally doublespeak, too much time defining "coup" and not enough time describing what happened. But, if he want to define "coup," he might get into what faction of the military is currently in power.

[don-o]

ping

FReepmail me to be added or removed from my little Honduras ping list.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Obama all set to reinstate the dictator.

[xcamel]

Our state dept is **going** to F* this one up.
Guaranteed.

[khnyny]

I couldn’t get past the first line. Don’t these publications have editors?!!!!

[3niner]

Sounds to me like he was impeached, and the military was ordered to enforce the impeachment.

[justa-hairyape]

So, if a coup is defined generally and neutrally as an overthrow of government by a small force then undoubtedly the actions in Honduras qualify as a coup.

So the actions of a countries Supreme Court, Elected Legislature and Defense Establishment is now defined as a small force within the country.

[Lexinom]

He has almost exactly six months left in his term.

Hondurans are marching in huge numbers, pro- Constitución, anti-Zelaya. Worldwide isolation does not seem to phase them. I get the feeling they would rather hunker down and subsist on salt and tortillas, with severely rationed oil/gas reserves, than face the prospect of losing their freedom.

So the question for the U.S. is this: will we continue to isolate them even after Zelaya's legitimate term is up next January - after a new election will have elected a new leader? If so, we are most justified in questioning the U.S. government's true motives here.

[TigersEye]

Skip the State Run Media. Find your own news.

Will Obama blackmail Honduras into installing a bullying would-be dictator? Hans Bader

Wrong Again Oliver North

Honduras Defends Its Democracy

Honduras Crisis: Zelaya Is A Threat To Our Democracy

Coup Rocks Honduras

Coup in Honduras - Correction: This is NOT a coup

Honduras Natives Say Democracy Preserved

Massive *Anti-CNN*/Anti-Chavez Demonstrations Erupt in Honduras (GOTTA SEE VIDEO!!)

Supporters of Zelaya.

Supporters of Honduras' President Manuel Zelaya shout slogans outside the presidential residence in Tegucigalpa, Thursday, June 25, 2009. President Zelaya's attempt to hold a referendum Sunday on changing the constitution has pitted him against the country's top courts, the attorney general, military leaders and even his own party, all of whom argue the vote is illegal.(Photo/Fernando Antonio)

Supporters of Honduran rule of law.

Demonstrators opposed to Honduras President Manuel Zelaya, protest in Tegucigalpa, Friday, June 26, 2009. President Manuel Zelaya is promoting a Sunday referendum on constitutional changes that has plunged the country into crisis by setting the president at odds with the military, the courts and the legislature that have branded the vote illegal.

A man holds a constitution of Honduras as demonstrators opposed to Honduras President Manuel Zelaya, protest in Tegucigalpa, Friday, June 26, 2009. President Manuel Zelaya is promoting a Sunday referendum on constitutional changes that has plunged the country into crisis by setting the president at odds with the military, the courts and the legislature that have branded the vote illegal. (Photo/Esteban Felix)

Students wearing gags on their mouths protest against Honduras President Manuel Zelaya outside the Venezuelan embassy in Tegucigalpa, Thursday, June 25, 2009. President Zelaya's attempt to hold a referendum on reforming the constitution has pitted him against the country's top courts, the attorney general, military leaders and even his own party, all of whom argue the vote is illegal. (Photo/Fernando Antonio)

Pro-Honduran government supporters in the small town of Choluteca, Honduras Today, July 1, 2009,

This is a picture from a demonstration in support of Honduran democracy and the government of President Michelleti who has defied the OAS and has said there is no chance that the Chavez stooge, former President Zelaya will return. (Picture courtesy of Gateway Pundit )

0bama was helping Chavez orchestrate this attempted takeover by Zelaya.

• WSJ Update: Obama Worked To Prevent Ouster of (Marxist) Honduras President

• Coups, interference, and the shifting standards of Obama; Update: Coup or ‘military impeachment’?

The State Dept has basically announced that they are an organ of international communism.

State Department Daily Briefing - July 6, 2009

[justa-hairyape]

The State Dept has basically announced that they are an organ of international communism.

At least the Crooked Party is finally showing some transparency.

[cynwoody]

From the article:

So, if a coup is defined generally and neutrally as an overthrow of government by a small force then undoubtedly the actions in Honduras qualify as a coup.

The government was not overthrown, moron. Rather, the government removed the president for violating the constitution he had sworn to defend and uphold.

[stephenjohnbanker]

My guess is that Obama will enlist thugs to keep this guy in power.

[HonCitizen]

Hello to you all!