"Billy Jean" and "Thriller" make the lists. I don't think a single J5 do. And yes producers were creative, but still relatively insignificant. It's the songs and the singers, not the arrangers, who are the draw.
I think it's impossible to assess the impact music videos had on the reception those songs had from the public.
Sure, the J5 were on once a week or so on Soul Train or AB or the daytime variety shows, but anyone would admit that that is nothing compared to the exposure from 24/7 MTV.
This is an interesting discussion, thank you LS.
The 80s are precisely when the record producer became every bit as important as the artist in terms of the sound recording. I'm not talking about a Peter Asher-type relationship with James Taylor or Smokey Robinson producing The Four Tops. Quincy's production of Michael Jackson was the template for all recorded dance music to follow in the 80s, 90s and beyond.
In the 80s it became next to impossible for any sound recording to chart without an accompanying video, and that's where MJ's true artistry registered. "Great songs" were almost exclusively the domain of country and adult contemporary radio stations. Duran Duran didn't write great songs...they made great records. Prince wrote some great stuff, but his grooves and melodies were the truly innovative component of his music, especially early on. Hall And Oates wrote very radio-friendly stuff and their records sounded good, but they fell apart on video...they were a little too old for the genre...their energy looked contrived. Radio was their salvation.
If you look exclusively at the music, Michael's stuff in the 80s was ordinary in the extreme. It doesn't matter how many lists he makes...as an adult his vocal range was narrow, limiting his melodic choices. While he tried to tell stories, his lyrics were mundane, a step above the tripe we were getting from the pretentious new artists at the time like Flock Of Seagulls and Kajagoogoo- what Frank Zappa called "pitched mouth noises."
Every R&B producer of that era wanted to be Quincy...even guys like Arif Mardin. Quincy and MJ's relationship was one of mutual respect, but other producers scoured the countysides of the world looking for artists with whom they could leave an imprint on the universe. This led to the boy bands of the late 80s and all of the 90s, who dominated the charts for a decade...many of whom had no real talent other than to pose for publicity shots.
In R&B and Hip-Hop today, the producer is everything except the pretty face. These guys control everything you hear on pop radio. This is primarily due to the Michael-Quincy relationship and the precedent it set for all that was to follow.
It's the songs and the singers, not the arrangers, who are the draw.
I'm not talking about "draw"; I'm talking about long-term impact and recognition of quality. I'm not talking about "arrangers" either. Arrangers are guys like Tom Scott who did the horn charts on Steely Dan's Aja.
I'm talking about the guy who has ultimate control, the person with the final say-so, who works the recording console like a musical instrument to create final mixes that can't be reproduced live. These people are currently the only creative people working in the urban side of the music business, and it all started with Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones.
The Jackson 5's records are much more real and reflect much more vocal artistry from MJ. These recordings portray actual musical performances...not edited, scoped, layered and textured productions designed to obscure flaws and maximize perfection. Future generations will prefer this music, just as they prefer Sinatra's early stuff to "Strangers In The Night" and John Lennon's music with The Beatles to his Double Fantasy album.
The perception of Michael's real musical talent will be centered in his Jackson 5 performances. I wish I could meet you, wager $20,000 and shake your hand.
Always hated “Thriller”....I have 1 album by the Jackson’s called Destiny..from the days of disco....It was OK....I still like it....