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To: Talisker
In answer to your quandary about racism. In a truly free society you have the right to whatever opinion you want. You can act on that opinion as a right until that right encroaches or takes away another persons’ rights.

Example:

The right to exclude oneself from a medical procedure that by definition kills an unborn baby is the right of any medical profession, because that does not involve removing anybody elses rights.

The right to discriminate against person who has the proper information, credit, and money to rent an apartment, infringes on that persons right to live where they want in a free society.

Minorities already have special rights, Ask anybody who has lost their job in order to allow a minority to keep theirs. Or anybody who has been passed over for promotion in order to have a minority promoted in his place. The definition for this is Affirmative Action.
Where does the government and law get it's jurisdiction: At one time the government in this country received it's authority from the governed. Today I think a cabal of elite are in charge and through legal manipulation, media control, and campaign finance rules they manipulate the system to keep their positions of authority.

16 posted on 06/22/2009 7:00:21 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: Jim from C-Town
What has become of our country when the queers and the perverts and every vile deviant
you can imagine is being listened to as if their opinions had any moral value whatsoever?
17 posted on 06/22/2009 7:09:14 AM PDT by trickyricky
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To: Jim from C-Town
In answer to your quandary about racism. In a truly free society you have the right to whatever opinion you want. You can act on that opinion as a right until that right encroaches or takes away another persons’ rights.

I agree completely. I wasn't really expressing a quandary, but rather reflecting on the fact that liberties often allow things that, while legal, aren't moral.

You point out that: "The right to discriminate against person who has the proper information, credit, and money to rent an apartment, infringes on that persons right to live where they want in a free society."

But in response, I could point out that requiring someone to rent their property according to predetermined legal qualifications, presupposes jurisdiction over the use of that property, and the operation of business in general. And I question where such jurisdiction is derived.

Once private property is involved, where does the privacy end, and the social obligation begin? The basic premise is that the limitation of accessibility of any private property towards any particular person, does not deprive that person of access to other property, and so does not deprive them of freedom. Otherwise, there would be no private property rights at all.

An example is Free Republic itself, and it's ban on liberal arguments, lawfully made through it's private ownership. Yet, at the same time, that private ownership would not allow restrictions based on race.

That's where the 14th Amendment causes so many problems, because while used to justify protection against racism and "inequality," it does so by creating the legal mechanism of privilege in replacements of rights. And once fundamental freedoms were jurisdictionally transformed into limited privileges, Pandora's Box was opened, and there has been no end to the trouble that's resulted from it.

The original Constitution is about nothing but privacy and equality. Thus freeing the slaves merely required their explicit acknowledgement as included in the definition of "the People." Instead, we got the Civil War Amendments and had our rights presumed into privileges.

18 posted on 06/22/2009 7:22:20 AM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Jim from C-Town
The right to discriminate against person who has the proper information, credit, and money to rent an apartment, infringes on that persons right to live where they want in a free society.

I disagree. We have the right to live where we want but that doesn't mean we have a right to force others to provide us with a place to live. My right to live where I want means only that no third person can get between me and the seller/landlord who agrees to provide me with a place to live. In the same way, I have the right to marry any woman I choose so long as we aren't genetically related, etc. But that doesn't give me the right to force any woman on eHarmony.com to become my wife if she doesn't like me, regardless of her reasons.

Or think of it this way. Suppose I'm a landlord and you want to rent out my property, but I decide to turn it into a daycare instead. By exercising my property rights, I have prevented you from living where you want. But have I violated your rights by doing so?

29 posted on 06/22/2009 1:12:25 PM PDT by timm22 (Think critically)
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