[woodnboats]

What that requires is for these men to cease behaving like men; that is, to cease to compete for the woman. It certainly isn't impossible to imagine, but it strikes me as very atypical, even peculiar, behavior. I could suspend disbelief long enough to accept it as fiction, but Rand appears to put it forward as a model of real-world behavior, and that one, in view of all that I've seen of the real mating behavior of my fellow men and women, is a hoot. I'm not saying you're wrong, though, and I am saying you fully understand Rand's point of view on the matter and express it well. Call me Scrooge... ;-)

Thanks for the kind words, Bill. Especially appreciated coming from you.

As I see it, most of what might be termed "civilized" behavior, at least on the part of men, runs contrary to our natural instincts. And yet, because we are a peculiar mix of the instinctive overlaid with the rational, we are able to put aside such things as jealousy, or at least mellow it, in the name of civilization, because we rationalize the necessity. I grant that these men are very masculine, even macho, men, but I think they are able to control their feelings, without denying them, when they see the need. On a parallel note, look at the emotional cost Francisco obviously accepted when he damaged Hank by destroying D'Anconia Copper, while recognizing the necessity. And hyper-competitiveness does not cause one to forgo recognizing and accepting the possibility of losing. The competition is valuable by itself.

Kirk

[Still Thinking]

I grant that these men are very masculine, even macho, men, but I think they are able to control their feelings, without denying them, when they see the need.

Well, Francisco certainly is! Look what he's been doing for 12 years. Making himself an undeserved pariah to those he cares about and not even getting any sex out of it that we can see, all in service of an ideal.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

As I see it, most of what might be termed "civilized" behavior, at least on the part of men, runs contrary to our natural instincts.

Nature is pure war, with every man against another. Fear of death is the only way to keep peace; so man is civilized by the restraint of violence against him for transgressions upon his neighbor.