Posted on 06/05/2009 10:14:07 PM PDT by Steelfish
I’m sorry, you’ve once again tried to foist the undistributed middle ... your appeal to the exception, to the extreme, to the blurred moral ‘tolerance for peace sake’ is pure liberal bilge ... and I don’t think you’re a liberal, so it is distressing to me when you do this! Those who lack moral clarity cannot discern good and evil. In fact, Islamic murderers are so lacking in clarity they are blinded by dogma. Your equating them—Islamic murderers—with those outraged by the mourning of this serial killer, George Tiller, is distressing. ... Actually, it is downright disgusting.
Hey, hey
“If we get to kill the people we think are Satanic, then the left is going to be able to kill people they think are Satanic. I can’t sign on to that.” Some people need killin’ ... you are already the target of the satanic Islamists. To try and blur that out with platitudes ... well, have a nice day. I don’t have the patience to address any more of your non-sequiturs.
Okay, lets do this one step at a time.
Do you think the killer of the recruiters thought they were evil?
You can’t quite grasp the fact, that it doesn’t matter one whit what you and I think of these events. People died anyway. And if we sign off on your premise, many more will die. And many of those people will be people you and I respect a great deal.
Now I’m supposed to think I’m a very despicable person because I don’t want to see people I respect killed. Well, no sale.
The courts are where these types of matters have to be determined.
DO,there is a moral equivalence going on by the Left and the Right, and it is exemplified by the Tiller and the Long murders.
Tiller is evil. We would all like to believe Divine judgment came upon him, but he was executed by a vigilante.
Roeder did illegally what we all wished God would do righteously. But we are not correct to say that these two are equivalent or right because of the end result.
Tiller was wrong to kill, but all souls belong to God. God says that vengeance is His, and that vengeance comes in a method and at a time of His own choosing, not ours.
In the Long murder, a jihadi believed that the soldier was an extension of the Great Satan, America. In his world view, America is an oppressor of Islam and must be subdued. The jihadi believed he was correct to attack this extension of America, these two uniformed soldiers. It is not hard to see how the Left, as unhinged at times as the jihadi, would come to see that the killing of Christians or Conservatives, who suppress progressive advances due to their supposed backward thinking, is a good and necessary thing, just as the jihadi came to his incorrect and immoral conclusion.
DO, you are correct that both these views are wrong and immoral. And if both are allowed to fester, there will be an open season on many innocent people due to political beliefs or worldviews. In a free society, that is a sign of breakdown, not of moral cleansing.
Looking past Tiller and Long, the fault lines are being drawn for a struggle on a bigger scale, of which Tiller/Long is but a small reflection of things to come.
I sense a day is coming not unlike Lexington and Concord, a day of rebellion in which violence will be a reaction to the rapid sea change taking place in our society. The ties that bind in a society like ours are coming apart, either by design or by chance, but they are disintegrating.
There will be a struggle whether traditonal American values survive and thrive, or they are replaced by the vision of a new world order and its secular humanistic view of mankind.
In 1775 and in 1861 Americans were forced to take a stand, and to choose a side. Such a time is coming upon us once again.
Tiller and Long’s death are the result of decisions of men, incorrect, immoral decisions of men acting upon their free will and judging the value of the life of another person. God could have killed Tiller that day another way, or He could have saved Pvt. Long from the jihadi.
But His ways are not our ways.
My life has spanned from the 1950s until now. For over five decades I have lived a secure life, and an abundant one here in America.
But there is a foreboding that the stability and prosperity of life I have known since childhood is about to come to an end. A catharsis of history is about to descend upon us, whether we welcome it or not.
We cannot be judge, jury and executioner. But there may a time coming when we all will be thrown into a brave new world where ideas will have to be fought for and died for in America once again.
Should that time come our way, it will evident to all. Until then, we must operate within the authority of government that we have until it loses its legitimacy or it actively seeks our demise.
Then, we need to fight with every ounce of strength we can muster.
I asked you a question. You chose not to answer it, but in stead to make these comments.
There’s no such thing as a Muslim murderer, that hasn’t murdered yet.
Please explain how lay people determine who those jihadists are. Bringing this up in the context of shooting them on the street, really calls to question your ability to reason.
Bless your heart, you’re very confused. It was you who brought up ‘shooting them on the street’ and tried to speciously apply that to my post(s).
I agree with your comments Exit82.
What disturbs me about those on the right who have always been law and order, is a new willingness I see to justify the taking of life outside the law.
Nothing in your lifetime, or even our nation’s history, could more rapidly bring about that time of trouble you speak off. The disintegrating belief in reasoned justice, means that even as Conservatives, we could not be assured that we would coalesce as a driving force in the instability that some of us will have contributed to bringing into existence.
It boggles the mind to see people wish to go down this road.
Others have been just as anxious in the past, witness the thoughts in the South that the Civil war would be quick and their national view would dominate. What a rude awakening awaited them.
In what context did you bring up the jihadists? Do you even know?
Yes, bless your heart too.
“We either abide by the law, or we allow open season killings to become the norm. And then frankly, all bets are off.”
“The Law” is merely the memorialization of common practice, so if it becomes common practice to kill unwanted babies - even after they are born - shall we legalize it by adjusting the law? That, in effect, is what Obama seemed to believe when the matter came before the Illinois legislature. Is that what we want? More to the point, is that what YOU want?
There are times when people of good conscience MUST break the law. When the question is between right and wrong, good and evil, ANY lack of support for one is tacit support for the other.
No sale. Both sides think their killings are justified by the very guidelines you laid down here.
So what is it you want. Do you want an open civil war fought on the rights of the unborn? How many lives to we dedicate to that war, five million, twenty million, 50 million?
Okay let’s say we kill 20 million people, to achieve the rights of the unborn, and we don’t prevail. That just adds 20 million more deaths to the death toll, abortions continue, and in the process, we essentially rip this nation apart.
If we’re going to play the if game, don’t count me in.
I suggest you make sure your passport is in order. Just as the so-called “Civil” war was brought on by a whole spectrum of problems of which slavery was only one, the next upheaval will see abortion as a small facet of a much larger problem. And yes, the next upheaval WILL come.
Abortions would end or be restricted simply if enough people would demand that it be so.
After over 20 years in the pro-life movement, it has been a source of disppointment to me just how many people don’t give a rip about the slaughter of over fifty million innocents, but hey, don’t throw that aluminum can away and, how ‘bout them Yankees?.
Law is what we all agree it is as a people.
There has been a tremendous disconnect between what believe on Sunday and what they will tolerate from Monday through Saturday.
I wouldn’t argue against it. I just think folks are signing on to something they have no idea what the ramifications will be. It’s always easy up front to ‘justify the cause’, but the death and destruction are not.
As a people we need to become more effective in getting our message out.
Believe it or not, the public opinion on abortion has been moving in our direction. In five to ten years I believe we will see major inroads into reducing the instance of abortion significantly, with public opinion behind us.
That’s the way to go IMO.
you and me both...learned a lot from all this about myself and folks here
I would only add that recent polls have shown that public opinion has moved in our direction. I am glad to see that.
Oh I’d much rather see all our problems ironed out peacefully but I know - as do you - that we humans don’t do things that way.
While I’m certain that the shooting at Little Rock and the death of George Tiller are opening skirmishes in something much bigger and more horrible, I’m not personally worried about it. I’m so old it’s unlikely I’ll be around for the festivities. Still, I wish my grandkids could avoid it.
Ah well, bad as it is, war is a neccesity. Just as fire is devastating to prime woodland, a controlled burn that reduces the underbrush is considered beneficial.
In past ages only the fit survived the ordinary visisitudes of life. Now, medical science saves even the most unfit who then pass on their poor genes to dilute the pool. As in all those past ages, war reduces the pool while the survivors pass on a slightly better set of genes to their offspring.
I can only hope my genes were worth passing on. God knows I’ve passed them on more than enough.
Thanks OldFart. I’m glad your genes are out there for posterity. Heaven knows we need people who at least contemplate the important issues of the day. So many don’t these days.
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