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To: tpanther
but rather wanting to know what limits all this, let alone makes it possible and it does bring up an interesting question, what is it that limits any animals from growing some wings and, regardless of size, from flying period?

Well, some of it is simple aerodynamics and structural considerations. Think of the size of the wings an elephant would need in order to fly, then think about the muscles it would need to control those wings, and the skeleton that would be needed to support the muscles and the forces on the wings...at some point, it just doesn't work.

If it's all supposedly without intelligence, totally random, without design, without purpose, then it's more than fair to ask these questions,

But if it is random, then asking why we didn't get a certain result is like asking why the dice didn't come up 11. They just didn't, that's all.

Why don't humans just sprout wings for instance?

No animals just "sprouted wings." If you look at the non-insect animals that fly, you'll notice that they have four limbs, just like us, and the two front limbs (or part of them) act as wings. So given that we're stuck with a four-limb body plan, we'd have to be in an ecological niche in which the changes necessary to turn our arms or hands into wings were favored over keeping them the way they are.

Why?

I tend to agree that it's a philosophical difficulty with evolution that we don't know what features natural selection favors until after the fact. But it's not a practical difficulty, just a philosophical one. It's like asking why a river follows a certain course--because it's the path of least resistance. How do we know it's the path of least resistance? Because the river followed it.

69 posted on 06/07/2009 6:45:37 PM PDT by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
Well, some of it is simple aerodynamics and structural considerations. Think of the size of the wings an elephant would need in order to fly, then think about the muscles it would need to control those wings, and the skeleton that would be needed to support the muscles and the forces on the wings...at some point, it just doesn't work.

Yes of course, but WHY "at some point does it just not work" and at what point, and why aren't there more animals flying up to that point and frankly a few a fraction beyond this arbitrary point? When airplanes first flew, it made no sense that we saw 747's flying within 2 weeks of the Wright brothers, but this is ga-jillions of years we're talking about...we should be seeing more animals flying, heavier animals flying and for that matter animals swimming, AND flying and running their own businesses on the side by now, logically speaking.

Moreover, when it DOES work, why not say for instance didn't all mice, or even some mice or some rats, etc. develop wings like their bat cousins did?Or how about little foxes? Wombats? Why didn't they develop pouches like kangaroos, this would be very useful I would think when flying.

But if it is random, then asking why we didn't get a certain result is like asking why the dice didn't come up 11. They just didn't, that's all.

WOW, how utterly convenient for you! They just didn't that's all? Kind of like all the belly-aching from libs: "God-did-it" only in reverse! GOT it.

No animals just "sprouted wings." If you look at the non-insect animals that fly, you'll notice that they have four limbs, just like us, and the two front limbs (or part of them) act as wings. So given that we're stuck with a four-limb body plan, we'd have to be in an ecological niche in which the changes necessary to turn our arms or hands into wings were favored over keeping them the way they are.

Yeah, I know, I know, ga-jillions of years, wings didn't just sprout overnight, which is missing the point, what determined wings in some animals and not in others? And your ecological niche argument falls flat because mice and bats, before bats developed wings, were living in the same eco-niche. The same premise falls flat with humans losing tails. There's no magical eco-niche that determines this either. It's all made up pie in the sky nonsense.

I tend to agree that it's a philosophical difficulty with evolution that we don't know what features natural selection favors until after the fact. But it's not a practical difficulty, just a philosophical one. It's like asking why a river follows a certain course--because it's the path of least resistance. How do we know it's the path of least resistance? Because the river followed it.

LOL! Circular reasoning at it's best! And make no mistake very much indeed it is a practical problem, so much so that people are doubting your excuses and nonsense. PRACTICALLY SPEAKING even small children know better. NO WONDER it's necessary to silence all dissent!

Very enlightening, thanks!

70 posted on 06/07/2009 9:41:53 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for g!ood men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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