Another Obama Whopper

The Obama File ^ | June 1, 2009 | Beckwith

[YellowRoseofTx]

Did the Navy liberate any camps, or sub-camps?

Well, they had submarines so maybe the liberated some sub camps.

Cute :)......but this is what I was referring to (satellite camps). Sounds like someone has a lot of info about this uncle wrong. Was he in the navy or was he with the 89th Infantry? "Payne, who spent much of his career working in library science at the University of Chicago, was a private first class in the 89th Infantry Division during World War II when he participated in the liberation of Ohrdruf, a forced-labor camp that was a satellite of the Buchenwald concentration camp."

[lilylangtree]

Damn! obozo’s pathological liar at the very least.

[Beckwith]

Here’s what I had:

Father: Charles T. Payne b: JUN 1861 in Missouri
Mother: Della Wolfley b: MAY 1863 in Ohio

Marriage 1 Leona McCurry b: 4 MAY 1897 in Peru, Kansas
Married: 28 DEC 1921 in Kansas
Children
Madelyn Lee Payne b: ABT 1922 in Wichita, Sedgwick, Kansas
Charles W. Payne b: ABT 1924 in Kansas
Arlene Payne b: ABT 1926 in Kansas

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=stanhendershot&id=I82026

If this is incorrect then the confusion was created here.

I’ll get back to you guys in the AM.

[Beckwith]

Agreed.

If my information is incorrect, I will eat crow, and make the necessary corrections.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks js.

[Beckwith]

Here’s another thread based on Yahoo Answers:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2022466/posts

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080528144621AAfmHHv

I have updated my site with an “Under Review” notice.

If it turns out I have been using incorrect sources, I will make the necessary corrections. I try very hard to get this stuff right.

Thanks all . . .

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Uncle Charlie recently commented that he thought the trip to the prison was for political purposes, not because of him.. From that I assume he was in the 89th Infantry Div. that liberated the camp although he didn’t say so.

[YellowRoseofTx]

Uncle Charlie recently commented that he thought the trip to the prison was for political purposes, not because of him.. From that I assume he was in the 89th Infantry Div. that liberated the camp although he didn’t say so.

That conflicts with this info though......

"Records show that a Payne, C. T. served as a private with Company K, 355th Infantry Regiment, 89th Infantry Division, during World War II. The C.T. Payne listed on the roster of the 89th Infantry Division is NOT a relative of Obama. Madelyn Dunham's brother was named Charles "W." Payne, not Charles "T." Payne. Genealogy records show that his grandmother Madelyn only had one brother, Charles W., and a sister Arlene. Charles W. was born to Rolla Charles Payne and Leona McCurry (nee) in 1924. Not only that, It seems that "Uncle Charles" was in the Navy. Payne, Charles W., enlisted in the US Navy on November 10, 1942, at Board #4, Kansas City, Wyandotte County, Kansas. His US Navy serial number was 6293977."

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Well, I guess we will just have to ask Obama. Surely he will tell us the truth.

:-)

[Beckwith]

World War II Kansas Selective Service Index

Search for Kansas Soldiers that served during World War II.

This database contains more than 227,000 entries of male and female Kansas veterans of the armed forces who served between September 16, 1940 and June 30, 1946. This data comes directly from Adjutant General Selective Service Board lists. The information in this database was input by KSHS volunteers and staff and includes the name of the veteran, the county from which s/he served, branch of service, whether enlisted or inducted (drafted) and date, the service/serial number, order number if “registered”, and sometimes additional data such as deceased or discharge data.

A search of this database identifies the only Charles W., or Charles T. Paynes from Kansas were in the Navy.

http://www.kshs.org/world_war_ii_veterans?surname=Payne&givenname=Charles&year=&sndx=0&county=&branch=N&servicenumber=&id=&submit=Search#results

5 results found.
Name Service Number Registration Place Comments
Payne, Charles H. Enlisted 17 January 1942, Navy 3007534 Unregistered Hoxie Sheridan Co. (Board # 1)
Payne, Charles L. Inducted 22 November 1943, Navy 8671474 Registered, order # 11695 Eldorado Butler Co. (Board # 1)
Payne, Charles T. Enlisted 13 December 1942, Navy 3427439 Unregistered Kansas City Wyandotte Co. (Board # 4)
Payne, Charles W. Enlisted , Navy 6287657 Registered, order # 11111 Hutchinson Reno Co. (Board # 3)
Payne, Charles W. Enlisted 10 November 1942, Navy 6293977 Registered, order # 12017 Kansas City Wyandotte Co. (Board # 4)

Source: Adjutant General Armed Forces Personnel Who Served between September 16, 1940, and June 30, 1946.

The Kansas Army records:

http://www.kshs.org/world_war_ii_veterans?surname=Payne&givenname=Charles&year=&sndx=0&county=&branch=A&servicenumber=&id=&submit=Search#results

4 results found.
Name Service Number Registration Place Comments
Payne, Charles A. Inducted 11 April 1942, Army 37255144 Registered, order # 2043 Lyons Rice Co. (Board # 1)
Payne, Charles E. Inducted 9 June 1943, Army 37531353 Registered, order # V11125 Augusta Butler Co. (Board # 2)
Payne, Charles J. Inducted 12 September 1942, Army 37223827 Registered, order # 11191 Wichita Sedgwick Co. (Board # 3)
Payne, Charles L. Enlisted 1 October 1942, Army 0498672 Registered, order # U-894 Fort Scott Bourbon Co. (Board # 1)

Source: Adjutant General Armed Forces Personnel Who Served between September 16, 1940, and June 30, 1946.

---

Now, if there is an error, it appears that it is at ancestry.com that does cross-check with the 1930 Census:

Father: Charles T. Payne b: JUN 1861 in Missouri
Mother: Della Wolfley b: MAY 1863 in Ohio

Marriage 1 Leona McCurry b: 4 MAY 1897 in Peru, Kansas
Married: 28 DEC 1921 in Kansas
Children
Madelyn Lee Payne b: ABT 1922 in Wichita, Sedgwick, Kansas
Charles W. Payne b: ABT 1924 in Kansas
Arlene Payne b: ABT 1926 in Kansas

However, the Census data only identifies Chales Payne, not Charles W. Payne, or Charles T. Payne.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=stanhendershot&id=I82026

---

But that still doesn’t explain why there is no record for Charles W. Payne, or Charles T. Payne in the Army.

I don’t know what to make of this?

Ideas?

[Girlene]

However, the Census data only identifies Chales Payne, not Charles W. Payne, or Charles T. Payne.

That's what I found yesterday, as well. No identifiers on the middle name in the 1930 cencus records supplied by the rootsweb ancestry site.

As mentioned before, he supposedly authored some work as an assistant director of the University of Chicago library. Maybe those would supply the middle name if found.

[Fred Nerks]

LIBRARY ARCHIVES: #40 Charles T. PayneC h a i r m a n , M A R B ICommitteeAssistantDirectorfor Systems, Library Univesity of Chicago:

SOURCE

That's all I have found so far.

[Fred Nerks]

There was a fire...hmmm

“Although we were not able to reach Payne directly, Payne’s son, Richard Payne, said his father ‘definitely served in the 89th Infantry Division’ and confirmed that Obama’s account was substantially accurate, except for identifying the wrong concentration camp. Richard Payne declined to say anything further.”

Politifact spoke with researchers at the National Personnel Records Center, who reported that “Army personnel records for Payne would have been destroyed in a 1973 fire that consumed many such archives, but they dug up a ‘Morning Report’ dated April 11, 1945, showing Pfc. Charles T. Payne was assigned to the 355th Regiment Infantry, Company K. The Records Center provided a copy of the report.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/wwii-vet-fires.html

[Fred Nerks]

Records show that a Payne, C. T. served as a private with Company K, 355th Infantry Regiment, 89th Infantry Division, during World War II. The C.T. Payne listed on the roster of the 89th Infantry Division is NOT a relative of Obama.

Looks like Politifact is about as useful as Factcheck.

[Fred Nerks]

Another story from a year ago...

Barack Obama Family Military Lies
No Quarter ^ | 28.05.2008 | Larry Johnson

Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 12:51:13 AM by StopBHO

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2022963/posts

From a poster named J Straight at http://sweetness-light.com/archive/a-query-to-the-89th-divisions-website#comment-111557
On the matter of the military service of Charlie Payne, the great-uncle of Barack Obama:

His full name is Charles Thomas Payne and he IS the uncle (the term “uncle” has in fact been used even for great-uncles in that family) who served in the Army in the 89th Infantry during WW II and suffered severe enough PTSD that, after coming back from the war, he isolated himself at home for some time.

Charles recovered, attended college and to this day is an active, mentally vital, 83 year-old resident of Chicago.

This information was obtained tonight from a phone conversation with members of the Payne family and is being posted to correct the mis-information that is swirling around the internet.

CORRECT info:
1. Charles’ middle initial is “T”, not “W”;
2. he did have what is now termed PTSD; and
3. he was so traumatized by what he encountered during the war, that he in fact did isolate himself at home for a lengthy period of time.

Charles is the second of FOUR Payne siblings:

1. Madelyn Lee
2. Charles Thomas
3. Margaret Arlene
4. Jon Virgil, (born 1937, which is why there is no listing for him in the 1930 Census of Augusta City, Butler County, Kansas. This census has been the only source offered for “Payne sibling info” oin all of the genealogical sites cited by those interested in this story.

I suspect that the listing for Charles E. Payne of Kansas is in fact the record for Charles Thomas Payne. I believe the scribe probably heard “E” instead of “T.” That type of error is frequent in census records and in military records where the info is provided orally:

Payne, Charles E. Inducted 9 June 1943, Army 37531353 Registered, order # V11125 Augusta, Butler Co. (Board # 2)

http://www.kshs.org/genealogists/military/wwiiveteransresults.php?surname=payne&givenname=charles&county=&branch=&servicenumber=&year=&submit=SEARCH

[Beckwith]

I checked my Family page and Madelyn Dunham was raised in Augusta, Kansas.

There’s an ABC News report that says Charles T. enlisted in 1943, with most of his graduating class.

There is an entry in the World War II Kansas Selective Service Index for the US Army for a Charles E. Payne, Augusta, Kansas, dated June 1943.

It is possible that Charles E. Payne should be Charles T. Payne??????????????

That doesn’t solve the discrepency in the ancestry.com records.

[Beckwith]

I followed your link to Sweetness and Light.

It looks like they're the source of this report, based on their statement, “S&L had it first.”

At this point, I would tend to discount this report as being in error, and that Charles E. Payne, is, in fact, Charles T. Payne. The rest of the data synchs up.

What do you think?

[Fred Nerks]

It gets worse...who is Jon Virgil Payne?

Jon Payne, Obama’s maternal great uncle, told CNN that his older brother Charles returned from the war with photographs of concentration camps but did not want to talk about his experiences. Payne, 71, said he was unsure if his brother — who is 83 and still living in Chicago — took the photographs himself.

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/27/obama-campaign-acknowledges-concentration-camp-name-mistake/