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To: Caramelgal; GodGunsGuts; Quix

You said — What I was talking about were evolutionists who are scientists.

There are evolutionists who are scientists who say that there has to be a lot of civilizations out there in the universe because if we “evolved” here, the way evolution says, then it has to have happened elsewhere with great frequency, over the proposed billions of years that the universe has been around (according to them).

The very first thing that came to my mind, when I read what you said, was the “Drake Equation”...


This equation was devised by Dr. Frank Drake (now Professor Emeritus of Astronomy and Astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz) in 1960, in an attempt to estimate the number of extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way (our galaxy) with which we might come into contact. The main purpose of the equation is to allow scientists to quantify the uncertainty of the factors that determine the number of such extraterrestrial civilizations.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation ]


So, here we see a bunch of scientists saying that they’ve got an “equation” that shows how many “extra-terrestrial civilizations” there are out there.

Along with that, you’ve got a bunch of other scientists trying to establish communications with these extra-terrestrial civilizations that are out there (at least that they are sure are out there, or else they wouldn’t be spending the time looking for them or trying to communicate with them... LOL...)

As a further example of the science community believing in extra-terrestrial life, as a result of “evolution”... see SETI...


Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) is the collective name for a number of activities to detect intelligent extraterrestrial life. The general approach of SETI projects is to survey the sky to detect the existence of transmissions from a civilization on a distant planet – an approach widely endorsed by the scientific community as hard science (see, e.g., claims in Skeptical Inquirer [1]). The United States Government contributed to SETI early on, but recent work has been primarily funded by private sources.

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI ]


I would say that there probably is an large majority of the scientists convinced that there are extra-terrestrials out there, and think that trying to communicate with them is the thing to do, too. And they wouldn’t think that, unless, they believed that the theory of evolution led them to believe that such things were not only possible, but a virtual *certainty* (as I’ve heard some of them say).

And you can *also* get scientists who are *directly involved* in the field of UFOs (along with a lot of them who are not directly involved but believe that they are there) who will *also* say that these represents extra-terrestrials out there, and visiting here.

I can think of one right off the top of my head, Stanton Friedman...


Friedman graduated from the University of Chicago, earning a Bachelor of Science (1955) and Master of Science (1956) degree in nuclear physics.

Friedman was employed for 14 years as a nuclear physicist for such companies as General Electric, General Motors, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics, and McDonnell Douglas where he worked on advanced, classified programs on nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets, and compact nuclear power plants for space applications [2]. Since the 1980s, he has done related consultant work in the Radon-detection industry. Friedman’s professional affiliations have included the American Nuclear Society, the American Physical Society, the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics and AFTRA.

In 1970 Friedman departed full-time employment as a physicist to pursue the scientific investigation of UFOs. Since then, he has lectured at more than 600 colleges and 100 professional groups in 50 states, nine provinces, and 16 foreign countries[2]. Additionally, he has worked as a consultant on the topic. He has published more than 80 UFO related papers and has appeared on many radio and television programs. He has also provided written testimony to Congressional hearings and appeared twice at the United Nations.

Friedman used to refer to himself as “The Flying Saucer Physicist” due to his degrees in nuclear physics and work on nuclear projects. Friedman has consistently favoured use of the term flying saucer in his work, saying “Flying saucers are, by definition, unidentified flying objects, but very few unidentified flying objects are flying saucers. I am interested in the latter, not the former”

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman ]


It would appear that the entire scientific community is sold on extra-terrestrial life in the universe, and with communicating with that extra-terrestrial life, and also with *working directly* with the phenomenon of UFOs (those who make it their specialty of work in science) and finding the ones that *do represent* actual UFOs from other extra-terrestrial civilizations.

It would appear to me, that the theory of evolution works quite well in outer space, too... LOL...


60 posted on 05/31/2009 4:17:07 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: Star Traveler
There are evolutionists who are scientists who say that there has to be a lot of civilizations out there in the universe because if we “evolved” here, the way evolution says, then it has to have happened elsewhere with great frequency, over the proposed billions of years that the universe has been around (according to them).

There “has to be a lot of civilizations out there”, with “great frequency”? No. You really need to do some more research on what actual scientists are saying. While it is theoretically possible that other Earth like planets in distant solar systems may have evolved life, or even intelligent life, or even conjecture that interstellar space travel is hypothetically not impossible that doesn’t equate with believing that those UFO’s sightings and crop circles (hoaxes) are proof of such. No legitimate scientist buys into this.

The very first thing that came to my mind, when I read what you said, was the “Drake Equation”...

If you are going to site “Drake Equation” from Wiki as proof for your argument, you might do well to also read this part:

Criticism

Criticism of the Drake equation follows mostly from the observation that several terms in the equation are largely or entirely based on conjecture. Thus the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions of any kind. As T.J. Watson states:[14]

The Drake equation consists of a large number of probabilities multiplied together. Since each factor is guaranteed to be somewhere between 0 and 1, the result is also guaranteed to be a reasonable-looking number between 0 and 1. Unfortunately, all the probabilities are completely unknown, making the result worse than useless.

Likewise, in a 2003 lecture at Caltech, Michael Crichton, a science fiction author, stated:[15]

The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. [...] As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless...

One reply to such criticism is that experiments by SETI scientists do not attempt to address the Drake equation for the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations anywhere in the universe, but are focused on specific, testable hypotheses (i.e., "do extraterrestrial civilizations communicating in the radio spectrum exist near sun-like stars within 50 light years of the Earth?").

Another reply to such criticism[16] is that even though the Drake equation currently involves speculation about unmeasured parameters, it stimulates dialog on these topics. Then the focus becomes how to proceed experimentally.

A deeper objection is that the very form of the Drake equation assumes that civilizations arise and then die out within their original solar systems. If interstellar colonization is possible, then this assumption is invalid, and the equations of population dynamics would apply instead.


So, here we see a bunch of scientists saying that they’ve got an “equation” that shows how many “extra-terrestrial civilizations” there are out there.

No, not a bunch of scientists – just one who wrote something in 1960.

Along with that, you’ve got a bunch of other scientists trying to establish communications with these extra-terrestrial civilizations that are out there (at least that they are sure are out there, or else they wouldn’t be spending the time looking for them or trying to communicate with them... LOL...)

As a further example of the science community believing in extra-terrestrial life, as a result of “evolution”... see SETI...


“The United States Government contributed to SETI early on, but recent work has been primarily funded by private sources.”

SETI was defunded by NASA in the early 1990’s. It is now funded privately, predominately by UFO enthusiasts. The project, while once interesting, is no longer science but psdeoscience.

I would say that there probably is an large majority of the scientists convinced that there are extra-terrestrials out there,…. ….

I can think of one right off the top of my head, Stanton Friedman...


LOL! He’s a nut case.

It would appear that the entire scientific community is sold on extra-terrestrial life in the universe, and with communicating with that extra-terrestrial life, and also with *working directly* with the phenomenon of UFOs (those who make it their specialty of work in science) and finding the ones that *do represent* actual UFOs from other extra-terrestrial civilizations.

It would appear to me, that the theory of evolution works quite well in outer space, too... LOL...


You sure are big on making assumptions based on how things “appear” to you without backing them up with any facts in evidence. Naming a defunded NASA program – SETI and bring up the name of Stanton Friedman hardly makes the case that the “entire scientific community is sold on extra-terrestrial life in the universe, and with communicating with that extra-terrestrial life, and also with *working directly* with the phenomenon of UFOs”.
65 posted on 05/31/2009 5:27:57 AM PDT by Caramelgal (When the past no longer illuminates the future, the spirit walks in darkness.)
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To: Star Traveler

Friedman is a solid man I’ve talked with several times.

I think he’s, however, a globalist . . . hoodwinked or employed by the powers that be into thinking that the critters are benign or beneficial . . .

He did shred the idiotic Drake equation quite humorously and handily.

The Drake equation is fantasy built on fantasy built on conjecture built on hogwash dressed up in a pseudo-science suit.


79 posted on 06/01/2009 1:11:29 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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