Porsche on the financial brink

The Telegraph ^ | 5/25/2009 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

[bruinbirdman]

German car maker Porsche is struggling to raise €1.75bn (£1.54bn) to cover debts and unwind derivative positions stemming from its botched attempt to take over vastly-bigger Volkswagen.

Porsche's shares fell 3.1pc in Frankfurt on Monday after it emerged that the company had obtained a €700m loan from Volkswagen as long ago as March. A Porsche spokesman said the group is negotiating bridging finance with a variety of banks, including the state lender KfW.

It is understood that Porsche is also in talks with the Bank of Tokyo for a €750m loan, and is seeking help from the regional government of Baden-Wurttemberg.

The crisis is yet another headache for the German authorities as they put together a rescue deal this week for Opel, most likely with Fiat. Separately, the hotel and retail group Arcandor said it faced collapse without a €650m state bail-out. Arcandor's share price fell 20pc. The company owns the Karstadt department stores, Quelle, and Thomas Cook. It employs 50,000 workers.

Porsche acquired a 51pc share of VW earlier this year after a series of derivatives deals that tripled Porsche's debt to €9bn.

The takeover bid went badly wrong, forcing Porsche chief Ferdinand Piech to press instead for a merger of the two car makers on increasingly less favourable terms.

Porsche's travails are largely due to financial acrobatics, not falling sales.

[Cyman]

Just got back from Vegas and the 600 mile round trip driving my Turbo Carrera was more fun than Sin City. Very rural route so I was able open her up to about 120-130 for some short sprints. Not the Autobahn but a blast.

I test drove a Nissan GT-R and THAT is one hell of a car

[razorback-bert]

One of my favorite cars. I had a ‘66 Spyder...great car.

[GSP.FAN]

Thank you... This is my other child which for some strange reason in on the backburner might have something to do with the kid? 84 conv.

[shibumi]

I know that feeling. My kids are 19 & 24 and my “projects” are still on hold!

[devolve]

.

Mine was painted GM factory ‘65 Chevy Corsa silver

I attached a ‘69 Z-28 spoiler to the front bodypan under the front bumper - not an obvious mod

I used stock GM front 7”x14” Camaro Rally wheels and 8”x15” Corvette Rally wheels in the rear
A variety of types and sizes of tires was in the racks for me to experiment with for different weather conditions or to test handling and front and rear alignment settings

Turbo, intake, carb, exhaust, and ignition mods bumped boost and hp and went from a stock 180 to over 300 plus - with a water-alcohol injection system for high boost pressures

[devolve]

.

Yup

Set up right - the ultimate snow car too

I had a complete pro shop to play with for every mod you could think of

They were real sleepers

They are worth mucho bucks today

I sold my ‘54 Corsa to VW buff with a clean Karmann-Ghia who built another street Turbo-sleeper

[GSP.FAN]

I will get back to you when i digest your homepage.
Semper superne nitens .

[shibumi]

Nunquam ubi sub ubi.

(Commando!)

[odin2008]

I had many cars in the past. 1969 hemi Super Bee,1969 SS Camero,and even a 69 Pantera, but the best and most fun car was a 1968 390 American Motors AMX. Hurst 4 speed, 3.56 dana rear. That machine won me more money at the local track than any other car. That car out maneuvered and powered a 911 Targa one night.....God, I miss that car!

[wardaddy]

this sucks...

997 Cabriolet owner

[wardaddy]

I just don’t like them.

We sorta gathered that. You're like Chet99 and pitbulls when it comes to Porsche.

The Vette you're talking about that can beat almost any Porsche 0-60 and top end ain't cheap...the ZR-1s around here are getting 140K...about 25K over list

My brother has a Z06 with Lingenfelter supercharger and it will do 0-60 around 3.5 and dyno-ed at 213 Mph My Cab (wife's actually with tiptronic yuck) still manages around 0-60 @5 and top ends around 180 mph the real pull is the steady acceleration and the punch from around 80 to 150 mph where I routinely beat Mustangs and other more pedestrian vehicles and my brother will be the first to admit that in the hands of an amateur driver the Porsche is much more nimble even though a pro can get quite a bit from a Vette on the slalom

one can buy a used Turbo for 40s in good shape and low miles...helluva car even if you don't like thema dn they are quite reliable compared to Italian and English metal

I have owned a number of Porsches...one buys a Vette because one likes that rumble...like a fast Harley

a Porsche is for more subtle taste...

Porsche's supercar models are out of my price capabilities but I will have a late model Turbo cabbie one day..

I just took a winding ride out River road with the top down...it was great...my brothers supercar Vette while extremely fast and frankly dangerous in my view is siply not as manageable and fun...except in a straight line with plenty of room to lose it

What do you drive now?

When I'm not driving my wife's car I drive a lifted F250 w/chip...it will keep up with a Mustang GT after 30 mph

this notion that a Vette for 25% less money will keep uip with a Porsche is silly....you can buy Men's wearhouse suits too that will cover your hide but if you can afford it why not Saville Row or Milan or a personal tailor?

I buy quite a bit of stuff at Dollar General or Wal mart but I don't shop there for things of discernment

JC Higgins makes a decent shotgun but who wouldn't rather have a nice Remington or Belgian Browning?

btw....Needy....I agree that Porsche's are more user friendly now....my first was a 1984 Targa...but please...the Boxsters are like 914s for Chrissake...not much on Caymans either...

They used to make Twin Turbo Fiestas in german in my day that would keep up with a Porsche to around 140.....I was there a lot and rented a 928S4 RUF tuned monster....200 mph car and I almost got there but my preggers wifey woke up tween Frankfurt and Bern and had a hissy fit when she saw the speedo at over 300 kph...man what a drift in even slight curves at that speed...I was afraid I'd get airborne....tween Portofino and Monaco on that same trip I had a 512 Boxer blow right by me on that tunnels and curves coast road....drunk kids with sweaters tied around their necks like in a movie..

another time in a red Turbo in the rain on the autobahn doing 135 or so and scared shiteless and I got the blinky lights behind me so I pulled over and a silver 959 blew by me in a steady rain like I was sitting still...he just nodded as he passed by

not sure what I'd get where money no option...a Mopar Hemi would be nice...or a Shelby GT500

[wardaddy]

I knew a guy put a 500 CUI Caddy motor in a convertible Corvair

two speed airshift

couldn’t keep the front tires on the ground

[odin2008]

The PANTREA was a pushed out fully balance and fuel injected v-8 Some had a Ford engine Cleveland monster or a 401 American Motors police interceptor. Fun but noisy because the engine was right behind now you drive,
Very hard to drive because of the severe over steering.
It was a beast, more muscle than the rest i drived.

[shibumi]

I’m going to be gentlemanly and forgive you for the comparison to Chet99. I am speaking of my automotive preferences in relative terms, under ideal (afford what you really like) circumstances.

Now for reality. In my current circumstances, I’m down to three vehicles. A 2006 Cobalt SS Coupe (nicely pinstriped with flashy chrome wheels.) A 1992 capped Dakota Pickup 4X4 with a “slightly” modified Magnum V-8 (street-sleeper). And the (every home has one) project car, a ‘92 Duster with an engine that has been tweaked sufficiently to shred the tranny. We’re working on that one.

Due to a misspent youth, I’ve driven just about everything at one time or another. Just never warmed up to Porsches. I loved the awe and mystery of British sports cars and the nervous anticipation instilled by the vagaries of their Lucas Electrics combined with the complete uncertainty of arrival at the destination. The two most memorable which I personally owned were a ‘68 XKE 4.2 and an Austin Healy 100/6.

.....the things I should have never sold ..... the list is endless.

[wardaddy]

My truck before my F250 was a Dodge 2006 Megacab loaded wish I’d kept it...the Cummins is without equal though I like the Ford styling.. I did not know they made a Duster in 92? I remember the 340s when I was a teen.....and Demons too. I had a lot of Brit cars from 1960 MGA tonneau to a 1968 MGB-GT yellow, red leather....hard car to make out in..I was 17 (74)

My folks had two XJ12s...cool as hell but open that checkbook on repairs I owned a number of Land Rovers from old 110s and Series models which were great to new Discoveries and Range Rovers which were trouble....I would not buy a new one unless someone gave me one and it had warranty and a loaner to follow me if I traveled more than 100 miles from dealer...why folks pay for that image escapes me....tinkle tinkle Safari anyone?

BMW 1600 and 2002 TII ......buncha trucks all makes

My wife drives a 10 year old Land Cruiser with three row seats...we have 5 spawn from 2-20 years ...best car for money we ever got...never any problems oh yeah...had an Alfa Milano Verde...pura mierda...worst car I ever owned....even worse than my Saabs. had a 4 wheel drive Subaru during Jimmah years ...good value...and a Honda Civic...again great value 1874 dollars brand new

I would also like a 1960-65 pickup with big motor shoved in....

I;ve been to Decautur to Lingenfelter twice..they have a 1300 horsepower yellow vette sitting there waiting for Bonneville...may be world’s fastest coventional combustion car...great folks....they had a 465 HP Edlebrok beauty motor sitting there for like 16000...would be nice in a cool old low truck..with board bed and stuff... oh well

[Wil H]

Recently, the Ford GT-40 that first beat the Ferrari's went on auction. Bidded to > $6 million but not enough for a sale.

The one I drove was bought for a mere $550,000 ...

710 BHP and easy to drive even at 140MPH braking into a turn

[devolve]

.

I saw a well-done swap of an Olds Toronado stuffed into a Porsche coupe

Mucho chassis and suspension mods of course

Too much time, grief, and money for my tastes as a project

My question was simply : “Why?”

-

I recall finally going up to Luigi’s NART showroom/shop in Greenwich on the Old Post Road and digging through the Ferrari front springs to find a replacement pair (LF was broken) of front springs for a De Tomasaso Pantera - It also improved balance when fitted with 4 KONIS - “terminal oversteer” is lousy on street cars and deadly on country lanes

The owner had fitted Good Year 60s - E front and H rear I believe - the stock radials put many Panteras into the trees on narrow bumpy winding Fairfield County roads - often with wet leaves of black ice

On my ‘65 Corsa I first moved the spare TIRES (2 spare tires/wheels - I ran 14” up front & 15” rear) from (a dinky original 13” spare) over the TRW Turbo at RR to up front in the truck/boot/whatever - also moved an oversized battery from LR to up front too - ran heavy cable through heavy tubing under the bodypan - a toolbox up front helped balance the Corsa better

GM had attempted slapping a Chevy smallblock V8 in the back of a Corvair as an experiment - even with wider rear wheels/tires - It was terrible handling and a crummy idea

I’d seen lots of Crown-Kit Chevy V8 to ‘65-’69 Corvairs - mid-engine and small block (327-350-400) worked pretty well on balance

There are a number with various V6 engines mounted mid-engine too

My ‘65 Corsa-Turbo was basically a sleeper-commuter car to NYC - served as a testbed for lots of wheel/tire swaps and suspension, brake, tire testing and experimentation

I recall that Moroso thought Corvairs were rusty unstable cars - until I bet him had had nothing that could stay with my Corsa-Turbo on upper Greenwich country roads

Car buyers/owners are not all engineers or people who properly maintain and service their cars

My early sportscar mods made this a natural - also I had primo vehicles with unique problems that the owners never could get solved elsewhere - price was hardly any question

These people loved their cars and wanted to drive them too - from supercharged boat-tailed Auburn to Pantera to E-Jags with V8 engine swaps

The Corvair engine and design required an owner with a brain - more like a Porsche owner -

GM made the same errors with the Vega engines - which became the Monza and Monza V8

Don’t forget that Ford turned a Pinto chassis into a “Cobra” too - my cousin is a big hot rodder and car buff - now messing with a “Cobra” of that flavor

But he will get the frame/body and suspension right and he knows his engines - Chevy or Ford

My uncle used a Crown Kit years ago to swap a stock Corvair into his Karmann-Ghia - it too lifted the front wheels - he had owned an XK-120, Porsche Sppedster, Mercedes 190SL, BMW tii - but he did not have the sense to balance the weight and suspension of his VW Karmann-Ghia Corvair -

I figure brakes and handling first
Power with brains is death

[GSP.FAN]

a Porsche is for more subtle taste..

I agree with you i had a 70 charger with a 440,all tricked out did not have to smog it in CA before i sold it for the Porsche.
When people asked me to compare them ,i would say the Charger Mike Tyson,the Porsche Muhammad Ali..
BTW Chet99 is becoming a legend around here,not saying that’s good or bad..
Slainte..

[shibumi]

You questioning my subtlety?

I'll have you know that my closest friends (some of whom are pictured below) have described me as the essence of refinement, taste and the image of haute couture.