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To: wombtotomb

Just curious...since I’m not Catholic...what is the Biblical directive used for the celibacy of priests? We know Peter was married (how do you have a MIL if you’re not married)...and I’ve always wondered where the celibacy requirement is found in the Scriptures. Is it the Corinthians passage about how being single makes your “serving” more focused because you don’t have a wife to please?


5 posted on 05/24/2009 3:53:01 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: dawn53

I’ve often wondered that myself.


6 posted on 05/24/2009 4:06:04 AM PDT by PureSolace (Trust in God)
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To: dawn53

Paul says it is better to remain single and serve the Lord as a married person is very involved with material or worldy things because he has to look after a family and a wife where a single person can direct all their time to spiritual pusuits.

Mel


10 posted on 05/24/2009 4:21:32 AM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: dawn53
A large part of the reason for celibacy is that for an extended period of time, Priests, and Cardinals, and even some Popes were passing their positions of authority in the Church to their sons.

Enforcing celibacy was a reform effort. It wasn't needed as much in the Protestant split-off groups because they just didn't have the money or property to compare with the Church. At least, until TV ministries came along.

11 posted on 05/24/2009 4:26:20 AM PDT by Bernard (If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember exactly what you said.)
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To: dawn53

Dawn, I’ll be happy to answer. I have a little bit of insight into this and have given it more thought than many as my son is entering seminary next fall to be a priest.

First,I would like to point out a couple of things that are important when you consider the times that Jesus lived and chose His followers, and now.

When He began His ministry, he was a 30 year old unmarried male. He selected both single and married males to be his apostles. He did this for the same reason he baptised adults. He had to witness to the adults of the times He was in. Some were married, some were not. The adults then passed on the faith to their children, and thusly, were part of the christian faith by merit of being born in a christian family, much the same as Jesus was Jewish by virtue of being born into a Jewish family. This was the same process for selecting apostles and priests. He preached to the adults, they converted and followed Him. Since it was common and expected that most men would marry in their very early teens at that time and Jesus’ age was about 30, it was a conscieous decision for Him not to marry, and it was to be expected that most men of his age group would be married.

Paul was an exception here, and he drove the point home in scripture. He exhorted that it would be better to remain as he was (single) for the kingdom. As you mentioned, he also gives the why about it, so they can be concerned for the things of God instead of pleasing their spouse.

There are other scriptures, which I am sure will be pointed out to you, but we are not dependent on scripture alone for our Faith. Scripture itself tells us that Jesus did and said many more things than are written in this book, and if they were all written down, the world would not contain enough room to hold them all. This is where oral tradition comes in. Much of our Faith ( including putting all the writings we have today in the bible together as it did not happen until 400 years after the Church was born) was handed down by oral tradition. These teachings were the norm in Jesus’ day (hence the scripture that tells us to teach our children by speaking to them about these things when we are rising up, sitting down or whatever we are doing, to tell them of these things; to train them up in the way they should go). The early christians only had a letter here or there, there was no compiled scripture until 397 AD. The earliest christians went almost exclusively by oral tradition. Just look in Acts at the monolouge St. Stephen gave prior to his stoning. That was from memory of oral tradition. It is also very common in the world today in the middle east for this to happen, as it has always done.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that, while there is scriptural basis for all that catholics believe, we are not solely dependent upon it as we have the oral tradition that was handed down from the apostles as well. This is called our Deposit of Faith, and it is the Churches job to faithfully tend and protect it, as well as pass it down from one generation to the next. It cannot be altered, changed, added to or subtracted from. It is why we cannot flip flop on abortion, gay marriage, women priests,or any other dogma of the faith.

Priestly celibacy is not a dogma of the faith, it is a discipline of the Church, and can and is sometimes allowed in very limited circumstances. A discipline is considered the ultimate, or best way, to practice, but allows for exceptions because Jesus allowed for exceptions on a particular matter. He had NO women priests, nor have there ever been any, nor will there ever be any, but he did have married apostles. It was pointed out by Jesus’ chosen singleness, as well as Pauls exhortations, that this was preferred, but exceptions would and could be made. All of the exceptions come from a man who has been ordained a orthodox priest or a protestant minister who is already married, and converts to the Roman Catholic faith afterwards. Most of these men who want to convert are not allowed to be priests, but are ordained as deacons in the church, but there are a very few, who have the calling and would have been priests had they been Catholic at the time, they are admitted to the priesthood. I think they number under 300 in the world at this time. Generally, one who is called to marriage has NOT been called to the priesthood, they were just ignorant at the time of their marriage of their calling to the priesthood, and when they learned of their calling, they suffered. A married priest has a really tough road.

It is also noted in our Faith, that the priest acts “in persona Christi” for the faithful while consecrating the Eucharist into the body and blood of Christ and hearing confession. The priest has a bride, it is the Church. He has many children; the faithful of his parish. He is our example, our “Father” in Christ, as St. Paul pointed out so eloquently. He had, as all priests do, a claim on Fatherhood for his children in Christ. These are our truths, they are what have guided us through these 2000 plus years.

It is very well laid out in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, along with every scriptural reference for each thing. I do recommend to anyone with questions to refer to it, as it is basically an explanation of the why we believe what we do. It is basically our primer on being Catholic; these are the rules, this is why we believe what we do. If you ever want to know why a Catholic does or doesn’t do something ( or if they should or shouldn’t be) this is the final arbitor of it.

Sorry so long, but there is rarely a one liner when it comes to explaning the Catholic position on something like this!


16 posted on 05/24/2009 4:53:08 AM PDT by wombtotomb
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To: dawn53
We know Peter was married (how do you have a MIL if you’re not married)

I don't have a lot to add to the other thoughtful responses to your question. However, there is no evidence that's Peter's wife was even alive at the time of Our Lord's Ministry. It is odd that a mother-in-law would be mentioned, but neither wife nor children. Widowers, of course, can be priests without impediment.
18 posted on 05/24/2009 4:59:52 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (we also have the duty to avoid prostituting our Catholic identity by appeals to phony dialogue)
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To: dawn53
Paul talks of remaining single, but concedes that it is his own opinion and not a directive - he also says that it's better to marry than to have sinful thoughts/conflicts.

Another case of a religion deciding that its requirements are more stringent than what the Bible asks - something all religions do, else we wouldn't have thousands of sects of Christianity. I have nothing against the religions, I'm currently in a Methodist church, but I won't ascribe to a religion itself because none of them take the Bible at pure face value.

21 posted on 05/24/2009 5:06:26 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: dawn53
what is the Biblical directive used for the celibacy of priests?

For starters:

"For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:12

"Then Peter answering, said to him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first." Matthew 19:27-30 (emphasis added)

"Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." Luke 18:28-30 (emphasis added)

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided." 1 Corinthians 7:32-33

We know Peter was married

We know that Peter was married at one time. We also know, from Scripture, that the Apostles gave up everything to follow Christ.

29 posted on 05/24/2009 5:39:36 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: dawn53
I'm a Catholic. Priestly celibacy is NOT biblically mandated. It's allowed, even encouraged, in the bible, but it's not a mandate. During the first thousand or so years of Church history most priests were married. There was always a monastic vocation, but they were the exception.

This led to a number of problems, including simony. Parishes became family businesses and were all too often run as such.

But the big problem was that this sort of proprietary parish system in effect gave the secular authorities far too much power over the Church. Until the time of Hildebrand kings appointed bishops and this gave them power of the Church. The Church - and I mean here especially the very powerful monasteries, for example at Cluny - wanted independence from secular powers.

Hildebrand saw that the only way to do that was to, in effect, make every parish priest a monk. Hildrebrand famously said something like "we can't free the Church from the kings until we first free the priests from their wives."

And it worked really well. The Church became a power in its own right and essentially ruled Europe for several centuries. Until the Reformation, which was in effect a sort of reverse power grab by the kings, like especially Henry VIII.

The main point is that priestly celibacy was supposed to be the exception rather than the rule. To this day this is the situation with our Orthodox brothers. Orthodox parish priests are required to be married before ordination. And it isn't just the Orthodox. Within the Roman Catholic Church we have our Eastern Rite branch, which follows the venerable Orthodox rule. Just to be clear, the Catholic Church ordains many, many married men as priests today, and nobody seems to have a problem with that. We need to make the Eastern Rite rule the norm within the Western Rite.

I believe that the celibacy rule should be dropped for the Western rite. Forcing men to be celibate only encourages homosexuals and other social misfits to seek Holy Orders. It doesn't fit the times. Unlike in the Middle Ages, instead of attracting the smart and ambitious to the priesthood we now attract the socially inept and sexually confused. And we pay for it big time. I have a friend who was molested by a priest as a boy. I have a nephew who experienced the same. I know one priest who's spending the rest of his life in prison for a couple of decades as a serial molester.

I find it terribly frustrating that the Church can't seem to make this obviously necessary change despite the terrible scandals of recent years.

49 posted on 05/24/2009 6:52:41 AM PDT by Erskine Childers
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